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#1 Donna

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:16 AM

We've now have had more mass shootings than days in the year.

So much for the "good guys with guns" taking out the bad guys with guns. When has that ever happened?

Well regulated militia my hiney.

Schools, places of worship, military forts, movie theaters, political meet & greets, shopping centers, and, dang! now an employee Christmas party as the list goes on.

It is time for reasonable/responsible gun control.

Edited by Donna, 03 December 2015 - 01:17 AM.


#2 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 05:37 AM

We've now have had more mass shootings than days in the year.So much for the "good guys with guns" taking out the bad guys with guns. When has that ever happened?Well regulated militia my hiney.Schools, places of worship, military forts, movie theaters, political meet & greets, shopping centers, and, dang! now an employee Christmas party as the list goes on.It is time for reasonable/responsible gun control.


This was a pre planned terrorist attack. A very different animal...

 

I'll be curious to see if our potus can muster the will to say "Muslim extremist" in this case... 


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#3 woo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 05:44 AM

So much for the "good guys with guns" taking out the bad guys with guns. When has that ever happened?

Well regulated militia my hiney.
 

California......

 

They have outlawed good guys.


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#4 kelley

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 06:21 AM

We've now have had more mass shootings than days in the year.

So much for the "good guys with guns" taking out the bad guys with guns. When has that ever happened?

Well regulated militia my hiney.

Schools, places of worship, military forts, movie theaters, political meet & greets, shopping centers, and, dang! now an employee Christmas party as the list goes on.

It is time for reasonable/responsible gun control.



Many of these locations prohibited guns.


What law would have stopped this?

Do more mass shootings happen in locations with lax gun laws or in ones with robust gun laws?

How many shootings have existing gun laws prevented?

Is gun violence increasing or decreasing? How about the number of firearms and gun owners in US, increasing or decreasing?
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#5 woo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 06:47 AM

For those who are not aware, it is next to impossible to get a carry permit in the state of California.

If you are lucky enough to get one, you firearm must be carried unloaded.

 

The entire state is one large gun free zone.


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#6 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:10 AM

ISIS seems to be pretty happy about this deal... #America_Burning...

 

EXCLUSIVE: ISIS Adherents Praise San Bernardino Massacre, "America Burning"

 

ISIS extremists began celebrating the mass shooting in San Bernardino hours after the massacre, creating the hashtag #America_Burning, Vocativ discovered. The Islamic State, however, did not take credit for the shootings in the ghoulish postings.
 
Vocativ deep web analysts used our technology to discover the sickening ISIS posts on web forums where the extremists frequently share information.
 


#7 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:13 AM

This was a pre planned terrorist attack.


Are you sure about that?

#8 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:14 AM

Are you sure about that?

 

Yes. How would you describe it?



#9 snowman

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:24 AM

it's funny how THIS is a planned terrorist attack... and other mass shootings are not that, in some people's minds. 



#10 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:25 AM

Yes. How would you describe it?

 

I wouldn't yet. I don't know all the facts. But I've heard one of the gunmen had been in a confrontation at the center just a few hours before the attack.



#11 woo

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:28 AM

Several long guns, several handguns, IED's rigged with remote detonators, attack carried out by two Muslims at a Christmas party......

 

Yep,

I would say this one had some planning.


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#12 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:29 AM

I wouldn't yet. I don't know all the facts. But I've heard one of the gunmen had been in a confrontation at the center just a few hours before the attack.

 

I heard that too... 

 

However the facts are that we had multiple masked assailants... heavily armed... tactical gear... bombs... a plan of attack... a plan of escape... 

 

Some dude po'd over a hair in the chip dip can't react quickly enough to put something like this together... it was pre planned. 


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#13 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:40 AM

it's funny how THIS is a planned terrorist attack... and other mass shootings are not that, in some people's minds. 

 

This seems very different than so many of the others. You don't agree?



#14 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:43 AM

So the new definition of terrorist attack is any attack that has any planning? I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to keep up. I'm not saying whether San Bernardino was terrorism or not. But Columbine was pre-planned and involved multiple weapons but I've never heard it called terrorism.



#15 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:46 AM

So the new definition of terrorist attack is any attack that has any planning? I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to keep up. I'm not saying whether San Bernardino was terrorism or not. But Columbine was pre-planned and involved multiple weapons but I've never heard it called terrorism.

 

I don't know what the definition of it is... 

 

I suppose when you toss a few Muslim extremists into the mix with what appears to be a military style attack... call it whatever the you want... 


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#16 Riverfool

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:53 AM

Here is why I consider it Terrorism: Subject had just returned from Egypt with a new wife. The Subject was a devote Muslim and the attack was praised by ISIS. The subject placed multi Pipe bombs at the location after the shooting in a attempt to kill for First Responders. Thank goodness they failed to explode.  They found more Pipe bombs at his home and in the SUV they were in.

 

According to eye witness reports the subject came to the party and was just fine, he left and then came back and proceeded with the attack, No arguments with other people at the party. 

 

This was a planned attack on a soft target to get the maxim damage, these facts along with his recent trip, to me say Terrorism...


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#17 Savile Row

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:59 AM

A motion in support of defining terrorism by perpetrators' actions:

 

1.)Criminal perps acting together
     make explosive devices (pipe bombs) and booby traps..,
2.) Said perps acquire firearms, ammo, tactical combat gear,
     body armor, masks
, etc.,
3.) Said perps prior to proceeding to the target site,
     place their child with relatives under false pretenses.,
4.) Said perps proceed to a preplanned target location wearing "go-pro" cameras
      and position the pipe bombs in the target area ready to be detonated by remote control
.
5.) The site is a soft target  with no American citizens attending
      with personal protection firearms for self defense.,
6.) Said perps discharge the firearms indiscriminately at the Christmas party
     at the targeted location.,
7.) The perps are Muslims.,
8.) The perps walk calmly away from the terrorist attack site
      after killing 14 persons and injuring another 17 and escape.,
9.) The persons shot,
     the persons wounded,
     the persons  attending
     the Christmas Party,
     the persons in the area,
     and the persons whom
     consume the mass media reports of the attacls are all effectively TERRORIZED. ,
 
10.) There are "Cardinal Signs" that have been executed
      by the criminal perps that are a mark of terrorist planning and activity.,
11.) Other additional motives may be attendant to the criminal actions,
      but terrorism has definitely occurred
      at the preplanned
      terrorist attack site.,
12.) ISIS smiles. The Western Democracies are once again successfully terrorized.
13.)  American citizens are dead.

 

14.) In summation, the perps are clearly terrorists.

 

Summary:

Motion granted.

Order entered.

It is terrorism so defined by the actions taken

and the impacts that occurred

as a result of  the actions that were undertaken by said perpetrators.


Edited by Savile Row, 03 December 2015 - 09:36 AM.


#18 Quasar

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:14 AM

Are there more? A larger terror / sleeper cell? More attacks in this area to come?

 

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.
 
“We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said.  “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”
 


#19 kelley

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:05 PM

A motion in support of defining terrorism by perpetrators' actions:

1.)Criminal perps acting together
make explosive devices (pipe bombs) and booby traps..,
2.) Said perps acquire firearms, ammo, tactical combat gear,
body armor, masks
, etc.,
3.) Said perps prior to proceeding to the target site,
place their child with relatives under false pretenses.,
4.) Said perps proceed to a preplanned target location wearing "go-pro" cameras
and position the pipe bombs in the target area ready to be detonated by remote control
.
5.) The site is a soft target with no American citizens attending
with personal protection firearms for self defense.,
6.) Said perps discharge the firearms indiscriminately at the Christmas party
at the targeted location.,
7.) The perps are Muslims.,
8.) The perps walk calmly away from the terrorist attack site
after killing 14 persons and injuring another 17 and escape.,
9.) The persons shot,
the persons wounded,
the persons attending
the Christmas Party,
the persons in the area,
and the persons whom
consume the mass media reports of the attacls are all effectively TERRORIZED. ,

10.) There are "Cardinal Signs" that have been executed
by the criminal perps that are a mark of terrorist planning and activity.,
11.) Other additional motives may be attendant to the criminal actions,
but terrorism has definitely occurred
at the preplanned
terrorist attack site.,
12.) ISIS smiles. The Western Democracies are once again successfully terrorized.
13.) American citizens are dead.

14.) In summation, the perps are clearly terrorists.

Summary:
Motion granted.
Order entered.
It is terrorism so defined by the actions taken
and the impacts that occurred
as a result of the actions that were undertaken by said perpetrators.



Motion denied without more evidence about motive, specifically one to affect political or social change through violence.

#20 snowman

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:30 PM

This seems very different than so many of the others. You don't agree?

 

a bunch of people got shot up by someone with a bunch of guns... seems the same to me.  






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