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News & Tribune Article Referendum Headline


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#1 CaptainPicard

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:05 AM

http://www.newsandtr...3baa87b3fd.html

 

 

While I guess technically correct, it is irrelevant. When your biggest supporting base is only pro 32% the measure was doomed from the start and never had a glimmer of a chance.  Seems like just another case of trying to place blame on smaller communities when the blame falls squarely on GCCS.


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#2 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 01:04 PM

Perhaps the Board members and administration need to ask themselves WHY this referendum failed so miserably --- even in Jeffersonville.   It was not just the farmers who were against this proposal and tax increase.   It was a lot of people.    If you look at the statistics for all construction referenda that have been attempted in Indiana since the law was passed, you will find that through May 2015 there have been 55 construction proposals ---- 30 of them failed.  A closer look will tell you that a much higher rate fails in rural school districts than in cities.  Also, of those that failed, they ranged from a low of $10,000,000 to a high of $98,885,000 and a low of $.0798 per $100 of assessed value to a high of $.8723 per $100.   But what is also interesting is that only 3 referenda that failed had a higher percentage of people against it than that of Greater Clark.   (Clinton Central 85.8%; Oak Hill 82% and Madison Consolidated 76.7%).  Greater Clark's attempt not only failed -- it failed miserably.  When New Albany Floyd attempted to pass a referendum in  May, it failed also -- but only with 56.6% of the people against.   So the Board needs to ask "why" -- why did they fail so miserably rather than just place the blame on the smaller communities.

 

"At Wednesday’s board of trustees meeting, members shared their disappointment with the referendum’s failure, which only garnered favorable vote among 25 percent of the 15,499 who voted on it.

“I know a lot of people in this room… put in a lot of work,” Jerry White, board member, said at Wednesday's board meeting. “To them and the students, I’m sorry. I wish the public had supported the referendum. I know these things are needed and we will continue to try to figure out a way to get that money and meet the needs of kids, because that’s what we’re all sitting up here for.”

 

Perhaps the Board should realize that THEY are one of the reasons that this failed.   Refusing to release the study that we, the taxpayers, paid for was their first huge mistake.   Hiring a political consultant in a highly deceptive manner was their second.  Paying him with our tax dollars to promote this referendum and giving him a contract that ended in May and trying to make us believe that he was "volunteering" his time from May to November was taxing our intelligence.  Spending another $10,250 of our tax dollars to hire a company to do a telephone survey of 300 likely voters was also horrendous.  Then giving the confidential email addresses of all parents to a third party angered many people.

 

It is interesting to note that of the 30 referenda that have failed -- only 7 have been attempted a second time.  Of those 7, only 4 passed.  Of those 4 they had originally failed by a small margin.

 

It is highly unlikely that GCCS could bring this back in the future and expect over 50% of the people who voted "no" to change their minds and vote "yes".  Especially when the Board and admin have a real credibility problem.

 

It is time for real "ethics and transparency" in Clark County --- it is time the School Board represented the people who elected them.  Seems like they are way out of tune with the voters.

 

 

(For more statistics on school referenda in Indiana go to  www.ceep.indiana.edu/DISR/
 


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#3 CaptainPicard

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

It is most definitely a leadership (or lack thereof) problem.  In their minds though, I really think they are too pompous to see it, much less admit it.  The board had better wise up.  Just look at the past weeks elections, people are fed up and are voting dead weight out......and we have a lot of dead weight.


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#4 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 02:29 PM

"Pompous" is an excellent choice of words, Captain.  When a board member commits a felony, pleads guilty and is on probation for 4 years and doesn't see the need to resign from her seat, then they are indeed "pompous".    When the other board members don't see a need to demand that she resign, it makes them ALL look pompous.  


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#5 Hickory Huskers

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 02:58 PM

"Pompous" is an excellent choice of words, Captain.  When a board member commits a felony, pleads guilty and is on probation for 4 years and doesn't see the need to resign from her seat, then they are indeed "pompous".    When the other board members don't see a need to demand that she resign, it makes them ALL look pompous.  

 

I really want to concur with and emphasize this point.  If you are reading this and were pro-referendum, especially if you have personal ties to somebody on the school board, I want you to know just how important this is.  Critical decisions for our kids are being made by a woman who committed, was charged with and pled guilty to a felony.  Critical decisions are also being made by six other people who haven't felt the need to publicly state that they have a problem with this.  I'm not suggesting that any of the rest of us is perfect or that people don't deserve second chances, but this is something that happened while in office, not 10+ years ago.  I think our kids deserve board members that are held to a higher standard than this, and I seriously question the integrity of anyone who doesn't.

 

My family has outgrown our house and are going to put it on the market soon.  The fact that this referendum was voted down makes it at least possible that we consider Jeffersonville for our new home, but having a felon remain on the school board makes it more likely that we choose New Albany instead.  I know New Albany schools aren't perfect either, but as far as I know there are no felons on the school board.


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#6 CaptainPicard

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 03:44 PM

Which do we have?????

 

 

st1.jpg


Edited by CaptainPicard, 06 November 2015 - 03:45 PM.

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#7 River City Kid

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 05:54 PM

Once again referendum voters confirmed my  opinion that our area does not value education in our schools. Some years ago I inquired from a local principal about the quality of our high school. He finally replied "average." I was left speechless because we should strive for much more than that, in my opinion. 

 

The one time I was hopeful was when Dr. Daeschner came here and he put together a plan that stressed academic rigor. It was paying off until the school board put an end to his efforts to improve our school system. My contempt for the board has never abated, nor will it ever.

 

Sadly, we are  what we are.



#8 kelley

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 06:41 PM

Once again referendum voters confirmed my opinion that our area does not value education in our schools. Some years ago I inquired from a local principal about the quality of our high school. He finally replied "average." I was left speechless because we should strive for much more than that, in my opinion.

The one time I was hopeful was when Dr. Daeschner came here and he put together a plan that stressed academic rigor. It was paying off until the school board put an end to his efforts to improve our school system. My contempt for the board has never abated, nor will it ever.

Sadly, we are what we are.



That board and their choice for super were the ones promoting this referendum.

Valuing education and supporting this referendum are not the same things. I suggest you check out Stop GCCS's Wasteful Spending on FB where, since Tuesday, the discussion has very much turned to how to improve the schools outside of this referendum.
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#9 River City Kid

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 07:07 PM

I don't follow Facebook. Never have, probably need will.



#10 kelley

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 07:45 PM

I don't follow Facebook. Never have, probably need will.



That's a shame as there is more information specific to that issue there. That is where both "sides" disseminated information. With more information, you may realize the issue isn't as simplistic as voting for or against our kids or education.
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#11 Donna

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 08:08 PM

This was NEVER against our children, schools or teachers. 

 

This was against a scatter-shot capital project that vital information was withheld from the taxpayers with the "just trust me" mantra. 

 

I'm sure it would look good on a resume had it passed. 

 

Our kids, our communities deserve our support.  This wasn't it.


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#12 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 08:51 PM

Once again referendum voters confirmed my  opinion that our area does not value education in our schools. Some years ago I inquired from a local principal about the quality of our high school. He finally replied "average." I was left speechless because we should strive for much more than that, in my opinion. 
 
The one time I was hopeful was when Dr. Daeschner came here and he put together a plan that stressed academic rigor. It was paying off until the school board put an end to his efforts to improve our school system. My contempt for the board has never abated, nor will it ever.
 
Sadly, we are  what we are.



I think many of us who voted "no" value education in our area -- I think you know how much I value education. I always have. But I also do not believe taxpayers should be expected to invest millions of dollars into buildings without being given all the information. We were denied the opportunity to see the 300 page report that supposedly supported the need for all this money (and for which WE paid $110,000). Also, this Board hired a political consultant in a highly deceptive manner and paid him with OUR taxpayer dollars to devise a plan to get us to vote "yes".

We were told by Dr. Melin that certain schools were in "dire condition" and would be demolished. Then the plan was revised and these schools were suddenly going to remain open with no money allocated for repairs. Doesn't that seem rather odd to you? We were told that Thomas Jefferson students would go to the new Wilson --- but we were also told that the new schools would hold approx. 750 students (the combined enrollment of TJ and Wilson would be 925). But maybe that's the new "common core math"! Then we were told in the revised plan that the new schools would be "smaller" -- 650 to 700 --- but no mention of any change to TJ merging with Wilson??? So were we just going to cram 925 students into a building built for 650 or what?? I could go on and on with the misinformation and inconsistencies but hopefully you get the gist.

We were also led to believe that this would cost the average taxpayer about $5 per month -- the "cost of a cup of coffee at Starbucks" as Dr. Melin liked to say. That, too, was highly suspect. The chart they presented which was to make people think the referendum would only cost $.18 per $100 instead of the $.3927 on the ballot was also highly misleading as it assumed there would be NO additional debt over the 20 year period. How many school districts take on no new debt in 20 years??

This Board and Dr. Melin need to learn that the truth goes a long way. This referendum not only failed, it failed by a huge margin. For the N&T to make it sound like farmers were the cause of the failure is ridiculous --- it failed in all precincts by a wide margin. Then for the N&T to say on their headline on page 6 "One precinct voted to support measure" is laughable --- Only 13 people voted in that precinct and the vote was split 7 to 6.

This referendum failed for many, many reasons but certainly NOT because people don't value education.

Edited by IntegrityMatters, 06 November 2015 - 08:53 PM.

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#13 CaptainPicard

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:29 PM

Once again referendum voters confirmed my  opinion that our area does not value education in our schools. Some years ago I inquired from a local principal about the quality of our high school. He finally replied "average." I was left speechless because we should strive for much more than that, in my opinion. 

 

The one time I was hopeful was when Dr. Daeschner came here and he put together a plan that stressed academic rigor. It was paying off until the school board put an end to his efforts to improve our school system. My contempt for the board has never abated, nor will it ever.

 

Sadly, we are  what we are.

I'm sorry but you have no freakin idea how much I value education, or what I have done and am doing in my life to promote education and lead kids down the right path.  How about the administration put forth a solid and clearly laid out plan that will actually put dollars in the classroom.  That is where the learning is supposedly done, right?  We need smaller classes, not bigger.  We need more teachers and aides, not less.  Teachers need more prep time for their students and need to stop being REQUIRED to have meetings about when they will have their next meeting about a meeting.  GCCS wants things done by a non-flexible date and then they can't even get the info and materials to the teachers so the dates can be met.  The public would be amazed at how much money is wasted on needless and trivial things by GCCS.  If I hear one more freakin time how it's about the kids I'm going to puke.  The talk is about the kids but the actions are about the money, ego, control  and power.  It's about the kids my ***.


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#14 River City Kid

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:08 AM

Farm Bureau made its position clear -- just like Tea Party supporters -- no more taxes. The vote in the rural area of the county made that perfectly clear. 

 

Kid yourself all you want. Once again we fall further behind. Average prevails.



#15 kelley

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:12 AM

Farm Bureau made its position clear -- just like Tea Party supporters -- no more taxes. The vote in the rural area of the county made that perfectly clear.

Kid yourself all you want. Once again we fall further behind. Average prevails.


Again, I've actually read the Farm Bureau's position and comments, and they are not "no more taxes." They do take exception to the property taxes specifically that put a much higher burden on farmers. You're characterizing positions one way; they've explicitly stated something else.

The vote wasn't that much better in the urban areas than the rural. The referendum failed everywhere. It was handled poorly.
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#16 CaptainPicard

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:47 AM

As always no one takes the time to listen.  Those against he referendum put down on paper why they were against it.  They were well thought ot and articulated reasons.  But the only thing the pro referendum side can say is we are against the kids.  It's idiotic.  And, as I ALREADY stated before but doesn't seem to matter.......Why keep trying to blame it on the rural areas?  For the everlasting love of Pete, the best numbers "for" were a pitiful 32%.  It...didn't....have....a....chance!  The "pro" side's continual blindness to the facts just shows they don't get it.   


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#17 Oldgoat

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 11:27 AM

Farm Bureau made its position clear -- just like Tea Party supporters -- no more taxes. The vote in the rural area of the county made that perfectly clear. 

 

Kid yourself all you want. Once again we fall further behind. Average prevails.

I will ask you the same question I asked elsewhere on this site: Can you show me ANY specific and verified (peer reviewed) statistics that show a correlation between school buildings and student achievement?  There is plenty of evidence that smaller, neighborhood schools do!  This plan included CLOSING neighborhood schools!  This was NEVER about the students but more about GCCS building monuments to themselves and throwing money at problems, a tactic that has failed miserably.


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#18 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 12:39 PM

Farm Bureau made its position clear -- just like Tea Party supporters -- no more taxes. The vote in the rural area of the county made that perfectly clear. 
 
Kid yourself all you want. Once again we fall further behind. Average prevails.


One of the organizers and supporters of the PAC that was formed to oppose the referendum asked me to post her response to you River City Kid. I might add that I wholeheartedly agree with her. This is NOT about "average" at all. People who care about education know that buildings do not educate our children -- teachers do. Here is her response:

As one of the people that helped organize the opposition, I will tell you that you are clueless if you believe the people of Clark County do not care about education. There were many reasons the referendum was doomed but not caring about education was not one of them. People are fed up with throwing money at the problems. It isn't working and new buildings won't make it any better.

The students and staff need safe buildings but they don't need to be “perfect” buildings. It would be wonderful if all schools were modern and new but that still won't educate the children. The administration has in no way shown that they have taken care of the necessary maintenance on the existing buildings, so there is no reason to believe newer ones would be any different.

It isn't buildings the students and staff need, it's a superintendent and board that will stand up and say “ENOUGH ! We are going to start backing our teachers”.

Two years ago an elementary school in the system had 30 kindergarten students per class … can you even begin to comprehend how difficult that must have been? I've been told there are 16 teachers covering NW middle school AND high school... can you comprehend that? Do you think a new building would make it all better? Will that really make the teachers better at educating? They need help. They need smaller classes. They need less useless paperwork. They need time. They need management to support them, not keep asking for more and more from them.

I'm not sure where the idea that new will make it all better came from. I worked in the OPTIONS Alternative School – part of the OLD Jeff High. I was the GED instructor. There was also 2 middle school classes and 4 high school classes. Our building was very old but it served it's purpose. It was a place the students felt welcomed, accepted and cared for. The staff felt supported by our Principal and in return we supported him - we were blessed that the admin seldom bothered us. That old building was the epitome of education. A newer more modern building would have been nice but it did not stop us from educating the students that came through our doors.

We had what the other schools did not have – small classes – nobody micromanaging us – a supportive principal that didn't weigh us down with paperwork and numbers and the freedom to use our God given talent for teaching. That sir, is what the teachers and students need most. Giving Andy Melin a blank check will fix nothing. Talk to a few teachers and ask them what they need to be successful, I doubt you will hear “a new building”. Our teachers are educated – they are in those rooms with students all day and they KNOW what will work and what will not.

The changes need to come from the top down. The waste has to stop. Retire / rehire needs to stop. Filling principal positions from within needs to be a priority. Firing teachers for crimes that are quietly accepted when it is a board member has to stop. The staff sees the favors and the waste at the administration building and they resent it since they are constantly being asked to do more with less. To be honest, I'm not sure anything less that a complete restructuring at the administration bldg, and a new board, will fix the mess the system is in. A majority of voters obviously do not trust or respect them and from the conversations I have had – many teachers don't either.

If you think this vote was just about money and that the good people of Clark County do not care about education – you are dead wrong. If it was just the money the admin could overcome that. It is also about trust, honesty, and respect – I don't believe they can overcome that. I talked to MANY teachers that publicly supported the referendum but privately worked as hard as I did to defeat it. They are intelligent enough to know that what was planned would not fix anything. Change is difficult – but it has to come or Andy may have a complete revolt on his hands soon. His staff is fed up....cheri blevins
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#19 River City Kid

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:16 PM

Say what you want, call me whatever you wish, this area accepts -- and even promotes -- mediocrity.

 

Show me otherwise.



#20 RiverFox

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:41 PM

:rolleyes:   Is that a red or white whine?

wine-83665382604.jpeg  :GirlTemperTantrum_zps8d438803:


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