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Collective Bargaining & Buster Brown


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#41 Cheryl L Ross

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:30 PM

Funny,I have been getting a Leader every week ,now I haven't seen one in 2 weeks,my little green box is empty on Wed.I wonder why since I have signs in my yard opposing Bob Hall and his council



#42 CityBoy

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:48 PM

:poo-emoticon:  :poo-emoticon:

 

Hard to know where to start, "getthefacts" but the images above pretty well sum up my first reaction to your last post: WHAT A LOAD OF CONDESCENDING CRAP!

 

Between this forum and Facebook, I have seen quite a bit about Officer Wagner's "demotion."  

Your oh-so-clever use of quotes around that last word is a dead giveaway about your bias. Please tell us how, in your world, a demotion becomes a "demotion."  

 

Let me try to put things into perspective. Let's say you work for a company in town, perhaps Mitchell Plastics. You and a few others decide you want to state your political preferences, but rather than saying John Smith, Jane Doe, and Mickey Mouse support Candidate A, you take a full page ad that says "MITCHELL PLASTICS SUPPORTS CANDIDATE A." Now, I am thinking that neither the management, nor the hundreds of other people who may not all like Candidate A are going to be thrilled that you lumped them in with your beliefs. I am also thinking your butt would probably be fired.

OK, let me try to put things in perspective.  Let's say you or a family member is an employee of the city of Hallville.  And let's say the big boss of Hallville is a paranoid little tin god who thinks nothing of punishing people who dare to disagree with him, or who are seeking to get better treatment from him.  So, in a vindictive rage, the big boss demotes one of his most valuable employees, and that triggers justifiable outrage from big boss's constituents.  To counter the outrage, let's say big boss gets you to post a ridiculous scenario on Clark County Chatter -- a post that is TOTALLY LACKING IN FACTS, but relies on some dreamed-up scenario.

 

This situation is no different. There was a serious lack of judgment by whoever placed that ad, be it Officer Wagner or the FOP or someone else in the department. Regardless of which candidate a person supports, to pretend that you speak for an entire police department is reprehensible. Stand up for what you believe. Skywrite it if you will, but don't drag a dozen other officers into it, especially when they may not feel the same way. 

This is despicable. You KNOW who placed the ad.  And you KNOW it wasn't placed by Lieutenant Wagner. The ad clearly stated that it was placed by the Clark County FOP Lodge #181.  What part of that do you not understand?  You hit a new low with your last paragraph.


Edited by CityBoy, 14 October 2015 - 01:14 PM.

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#43 getthefacts

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 01:43 PM

Man, CityBoy. You are really angry. You hate Bob Hall, we got it. I don't believe the FOP placed that ad on behalf of the Charlestown police department of their own volition. If they did, and I was an officer who did not agree with that endorsement, I would be thoroughly ticked. That doesn't change the fact it was placed without the backing of every single officer of that department. You can not be the voice of everyone, when only half agree with what you are saying. 


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#44 getthefacts

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:29 PM

Being a woman, I can guarantee you I am not Bob Hall. And it is not my intention to be condescending. I read things, I have an opinion. My opinion is that it was a bad call to place an ad representing an entire police department when not all the officers agree with the endorsement. And in the private sector, it would have cost someone their job(s).



#45 Quasar

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:34 PM

Let's all take a deep breath before posting...

This thread appears to be headed for a lock down...

Keep Calm... Chatter On...
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#46 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:03 AM

Quasar, I agree sometimes these posts get carried away and push the envelope. In my humble opinion it is mostly thru frustration, it seems that no matter how compelling the evidence may be against Charlestown's Mayor Bob Hall there seems to be one or more of his faithful followers who will defend and support Him.    I wish this forum reached more of Charlestown's voters, I believe that the evidence presented here more than substantiates all of the negative claims against Charlestown's Mayor. It is human nature to not admit when you are wrong and I believe that in itself, along with a constant fear of reprisal, are the reason's a person would stay devoted to a Mayor, although all  evidence points to the fact that they have misplaced their loyalty. Quasar, I apologize for the fact that I sometimes am a little too passionate in My descriptions and I for one will try to heed your advice and Keep Calm...and Chatter On.... 


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#47 Holy Cow

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 05:02 PM

Old Pawpaw, your last post seems to imply, at least to me that you have all of the evidence and knowledge and that anyone who may see things differently when it comes to Mayor Hall is simply wrong. I cannot imagine that you are really implying that. If so, is it too much to simply accept that well-intentioned and intelligent people can disagree and see issues from differing perspectives?
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#48 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 10:53 PM

Holly Cow, I agree people can see things differently and disagree, but when evidence is presented to well-intentioned and intelligent people who choose to look the other way, rather than face the facts that are presented to them.  Maybe those well- intentioned and intelligent people you are referring to are,( as far as Bob Hall is concerned) ignorant and have misguided loyalties. Holy Cow,there have been leaders thru-out time, who have had followers, whom after the fact, realize they have given their loyalties to a person who was not truthful and had them convinced that he was. Bob Hall is that person !   After seeing the way Bob Hall blamed the children of Pleasant Ridge for being a burden for the schools, after seeing Bob Hall try to take peoples homes,because their neighbors do not reach his standards.  Bob Hall blatantly lied when he blamed his City Council for losing the" commitment" of Panera Bread and Ruby Tuesday's, they would never consider coming to Charlestown because of our population. ( call the corporate offices,if you do not believe me) Why would the Charlestown Police, trust Bob Hall, after all he has been promising them a new Police Station since 2000. The Mayor's lack of respect for the Police could not have been more evident, than when he would not even consider them having a hand in their own negotiations thru Collective Bargaining. For anyone to take an objective look at these and the too many to mention here,other things that Bob Hall has done and to still be loyal, I question the intentions and intelligence of them !



#49 Holy Cow

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 04:42 AM

Old Pawpaw, I want to say that I have no real position in this matter. In saying that, I would like to very respectfully say that the argument you present and the manner in which you present it seem to feel amazing similar to the ways you portray Mayor Hall. Your "I am the ultimate knowledge of what is right and what is wrong" sound as dictatorial and self-righteous as you depict him.

Just a thought...
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#50 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 03:16 PM

Holy Cow , I am not an elected official and I am not running for Mayor, If I was then Holy Cow , you would have every right to depict me any way that you choose. I have the right as a United States citizen, to present an argument and portray Mayor Bob Hall in any Manor that I feel is appropriate, depicting Mayor Bob Hall as dictatorial and self-righteous, fits a saying my old PawPaw told me -----" If the shoe fits wear it !"



#51 Holy Cow

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 06:19 AM

Old Pawpaw, if you choose to openly and publicly convey your opinions on a forum like this, then I would think you too are willing to have those comments critiqued. Again, your responses to that critique seems amazingly similar to your portrayal of Mayor Hall. I cannot say whether your portrayal is accurate or not; I can say that my grandfather also passed on a couple of meaningful cliches by which to live:

"People in glass houses should not throw stones."
"Be careful when trying to fit on someone else the shoes you may wear."

Edited by Holy Cow, 22 October 2015 - 06:19 AM.


#52 Quasar

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 06:46 AM

Old Pawpaw, if you choose to openly and publicly convey your opinions on a forum like this, then I would think you too are willing to have those comments critiqued. Again, your responses to that critique seems amazingly similar to your portrayal of Mayor Hall. I cannot say whether your portrayal is accurate or not; I can say that my grandfather also passed on a couple of meaningful cliches by which to live:"People in glass houses should not throw stones.""Be careful when trying to fit on someone else the shoes you may wear."


You are not here to sit in judgment of other members.

Post about the topic... not about other members...
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#53 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 07:29 AM

My only intent on this topic is to show that Bob Hall is against Collective Bargaining, against allowing Charlestown's home owners the right to choose without pressure and threats of code violation fines, if they want to sell their homes, against the political system that elected people, who would dare have the conscience to vote against Bob Hall ! He shows his distain for other elected officials at every turn.  It all comes down to another old saying my Old PAWPAW was found of repeating, "Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" !  The Voters of Charlestown  should show support of the Police and vote against Bob Hall and his like-minded followers !


Edited by Old Pawpaw, 22 October 2015 - 07:29 AM.


#54 Holy Cow

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 10:04 AM

Quasar, with all due respect, I question the acceptance of "open season" on public officials to the extent that the "politics of personal destruction" is allowed to be practiced on here.

I have read on here that you invite public officials/candidates to post on here. If we do not limit discourse to policy positions and prohibit personal attacks, then we will never be successful in attracting a broad representation of public figures and candidates.

That said, I will refrain from criticizing what I see as unnecessary personal attacks and the prescription of motives on our public figures.

#55 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 03:38 PM

Holy Cow, if you question the "open season" on Mayor Hall and his running mates,then it must really upset you when people make personal remarks about our President.  Bob Hall to my knowledge has never been attacked because of his religion, his race. or his personal life,( as President Obama has)  most attacks on this forum are justified by his performance as Mayor !  If public officials and candidates are thin skinned enough that they can not handle personal attacks, then maybe they should try something a little less personal than politics !  Bingo, Bowling, Put-Put or a walk thru the Sprinkle Park comes to mind. ( only do not try the Put-Put or Sprinkle Park on Sunday,Bob Hall closes it that day) 



#56 Holy Cow

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 05:55 PM

Actually, it truly sickens me that people says the things they say about our President. Whether or not I agree with our President's policies, I honestly do not believe that people should say the things they say about him on a personal basis, or the things they say about him "trying to ruin America." Again, whether or not I agree with him, I believe in my heart that he is a well-intentioned man that wants to do what he feels is best for this country.

Regarding your comment of being thick-skinned... I would only say the the very treatment of public officials we see as common today largely contributes to the fact that we have trouble attracting people to serve. It isn't thin-skinned. It is why expose yourself and your family to that.

Just my humble opinion.

#57 Ruth Ann Rawlings

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 09:51 PM

Actually, it truly sickens me that people says the things they say about our President. Whether or not I agree with our President's policies, I honestly do not believe that people should say the things they say about him on a personal basis, or the things they say about him "trying to ruin America." Again, whether or not I agree with him, I believe in my heart that he is a well-intentioned man that wants to do what he feels is best for this country.

Regarding your comment of being thick-skinned... I would only say the the very treatment of public officials we see as common today largely contributes to the fact that we have trouble attracting people to serve. It isn't thin-skinned. It is why expose yourself and your family to that.

Just my humble opinion.

I'm happy to see you post this Holy Cow!  It has saddened me to see people disrespect the office of the POTUS.  I have tried to show the same respect to the mayor of the City of Charlestown, but have, instead been called an evil dooer who has tried to shut the city down. 


Edited by Ruth Ann Rawlings, 22 October 2015 - 09:53 PM.

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#58 Holy Cow

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 07:49 PM

I wish I could take credit for this post. It appeared in another section of this forum by another poster. I could not help to cut and paste it on here as it seems perfectly applicable to the discussion.

Read the 3rd paragraph. It says it all.


"If everyone has not figured by now This site is a virtual playground
for adults. You have people trying to help people get elected, the
majority of what I see is simply SIH Stuff I heard.

Very few if any candidates come on this site, mainly because they end up
getting blasted by the other side. This site used to have candidates that
held small offices all the way up to Mayors. After a while it is just attack
attack and more attack.

Stay informed, pay attention and most everything will come out in the wash.
Most people seeking election have been active in the community and it is
easy to get feedback on them.

I enjoy reading CCC because everyone likes to play detective, post false messages
and throw the readers off. Enjoy the site for what it is.

If you want to read about the candidates go to your mailbox, chances are every single
candidate has dropped something off for you. Usually, Education, Achievements, Positions
held in the community and many other things are shared."

#59 Ruth Ann Rawlings

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:46 PM

Wanted to share this facebook post made by Toby Deaton.

 

Well it appears that the Leader newspaper will not allow the FOP to address the issues raised by Mayor Bob Hall or the Chief of Police. When we tried to place t...his add we were told no. Please read this for the truth!! I write this as a State FOP Representative.

The FOP was started as a way to improve the working conditions and the community in which they serve. For over 100 years the organization has done just that, and became the nation’s leading expert on police matters.

FOP representatives regularly speak with all levels of government including the President of the United States. The credentials of this organization are second to none and cannot be denied.

The FOP understands that building a better community takes on many facets including charity donations. With billions of dollars donated to a variety of charities including the Special Olympics and Easter Seals. Locally, the school systems, 4-H, and a variety of others have received contributions. FOP members give back to the community they serve.

The MAJORITY of Charlestown Police Officers are FOP members. As such, a meeting was held AFTER collective bargaining was VETOED by Bob Hall. This meeting formed our PAC to express our disappointment at the lack of support by these individuals. This has NEVER been a political ploy!!

Bob Hall stated that 3 attorneys advised not to pass this. However, when our own attorney clarified and proved misinformation was provided, no questions were asked. In fact, some incorrect state statuettes were being used as reasons to turn down collective bargaining. Those statuettes were corrected. One example used compared Charlestown to Detroit. This was never a fair or unbiased argument used by Bob Halls attorneys.

Collective bargaining is utilized all around the nation and in Indiana. The FOP went further and proved that in Clark County it has been successful. We asked the Republican President of the Jeffersonville City Council to speak about her experiences with collective bargaining. She provided a very positive review and urged the council to pass it. Clarksville also has a collective bargaining ordinance and has had success for many years.

The citizens of Charlestown have already suffered because of the actions from the Police Administration. A 12 year Lt. has been demoted and as a result has resigned. Other officers have received punishment as well. This will lead to more officers resigning and being replaced with less experienced and untrained personnel. We believe when working conditions improve the quality of the department and the community is enhanced.

Many people say they support the police including Bob Hall. However, few actually take action to prove their support like Dan James, Jeff Aaron, Ruth Ann Rawlings, Donna Innes and Tina Gabbard Barnes do. These candidates DO support the Police and the FOP completely endorses them.

The FOP feels that Charlestown will be a safer and improved community if they are elected. We ask for your vote on November 3rd.


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#60 Riverlover

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:57 PM

They were told no because it's illegal. its common knowledge the leader is a weekly paper and the dates of publication leave no room for rebuttal.

And who is Toby Deaton? I've never heard of him.
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