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Collective Bargaining & Buster Brown


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#1 moose

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 12:10 AM

So I get on Facebook and see this negative post bashing City Council Members (Rawlings, James, Aaron) for voting for Collective Bargaining for the police Department being shared by some folks that work at City Hall on Facebook by this person named "Buster Brown".  Buster pretends to be oblivious to anything going on in Charlestown and that he/she just recently learned about this and happened to attend the meeting, when the reality is that Bob Hall is going around saying the exact same things that Buster is posting (all of Buster's posts have been a regurgitation of Bob Hall's political rhetoric).  In fact Buster just joined Facebook right after the Council Meeting where they took the vote on Collective Bargaining, it is very obvious that Buster is running for office or works at City Hall for someone that is running for office. 

 

Buster, since you mention that you read the CCC, why did your facebook post fail to mention the presentation that Jeffersonville Councilwoman Lisa Gill (Jamie Noel's sister) gave disputing all of the misstatements that Bob Hall has been making? We have one of the lowest paid police department's in the area and our officer's deserve to make decent wages.  It's very shameful that the folks in City Hall and the Charlestown Republican Slate of Candidates have chosen to continue to spread lies about collective bargaining!  When Bob Hall knocks on your door this campaign season, ask him these questions:  What was the payroll for the Mayor's office when you took office compared to what it is now?  Then ask what was the salary of a patrolman when you took office compared to what it is now. He'll never give you an honest answer, but you will see him squirm.

 

P.S. You probably should have looked up "Buster Brown" in the urban dictionary before deciding on your fake name.   The definition certainly fits!

 

 

 

 



#2 getthefacts

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 10:57 AM

2000-OR-7 First class patrolman $28777.14 (set wages for year 2001, first salary ordinance of Bob's term)

2014-OR-13 First class Patrolman $38784 (set wages for 2015, 34.77% increase)

 

2000-OR-14 Mayor $39950

2014-OR-15 Mayor $46021.35 (15.2% change)

 

You can not compare Charlestown to cities like Jeff and New Albany. They are not of comparable size. If you look at the first class patrolman salaries of other cities and towns in the area of similar size:

 

Austin $37648

Salem $ 35232

Sellersburg $41798

 

Then benefits:

Austin $85/week family insurance $1500 deductible

Charlestown $30/week family insurance  $5000 deductible, $1250 after HRA

Salem $53.79/week family insurance $1500 deductible

Sellersburg $101.08/week family insurance $1500 deductible, $250 after HRA

 

Are the Charlestown officers so grossly underpaid that collective bargaining is necessary? Not in my opinion.



#3 moose

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 01:37 PM

Get the FACTS -  

 

Bob Hall took office in January 2000 so the Mayor's salary ordinance for that year was set in 1999.  What was the Mayor's salary in the 1999 salary ordinance?

 

Also, why are the ordinances you refer to not listed on the City's website?

 

http://cityofcharles...014-ordinances/


Edited by moose, 02 September 2015 - 01:43 PM.


#4 getthefacts

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:25 AM

1999-OR-8 First Class Patrolman $26277.14

1999-OR-10 Mayor (Water/Sewer payment) $6500

1999-OR-11 Mayor (General payment) $20102.64

 

I am not the person to ask why the ordinances are not on the city's website. But if you doubt the accuracy of the information, by all means request the ordinances yourself in the clerk treasurer's office. 

 

And let me go ahead and address your next point. The mayor gave himself a huge raise his first year in office, True. But, if you compare the current mayoral salaries of COMPARABLE cities, our mayor still makes the least.

 

Austin $47722

Charlestown $46021

Salem $50887

 

Sellersburg, being a town, has no mayor.  



#5 Riverfool

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 10:13 AM

2000-OR-7 First class patrolman $28777.14 (set wages for year 2001, first salary ordinance of Bob's term)

2014-OR-13 First class Patrolman $38784 (set wages for 2015, 34.77% increase)

 

2000-OR-14 Mayor $39950

2014-OR-15 Mayor $46021.35 (15.2% change)

 

You can not compare Charlestown to cities like Jeff and New Albany. They are not of comparable size. If you look at the first class patrolman salaries of other cities and towns in the area of similar size:

 

Austin $37648

Salem $ 35232

Sellersburg $41798

 

Then benefits:

Austin $85/week family insurance $1500 deductible

Charlestown $30/week family insurance  $5000 deductible, $1250 after HRA

Salem $53.79/week family insurance $1500 deductible

Sellersburg $101.08/week family insurance $1500 deductible, $250 after HRA

 

Are the Charlestown officers so grossly underpaid that collective bargaining is necessary? Not in my opinion.

 

This Message is brought to you and paid for by the Bob Hall campaign for King, any relation to actually facts is by accident.


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#6 getthefacts

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 10:53 AM

Riverfool, what scares you more: that the information is inaccurate or the council is about to make a huge mistake?



#7 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 05:21 PM

getthefacts,Mayor Hall did not get his first raise until Dec, of 2000 prior to that the mayor,s pay was less than 27,000 dollars per year the real amount of his pay increase  from 2000 to 2015 was much closer to a $20,000 pay increase, your 15% pay increase was closer to 75%. If Bob Hall gets the council he wants in place another outrageous increase most certainly will be forthcoming! All collective bargaining does is give the Police an opportunity to discuss their wants and needs.  Bob Hall does not want collective bargaining because King Bob would lose some of the control over the Police.The amount of pay increase is not the issue the issue is that King Bob has to make all of the decisions about every issue by himself. It is time for this Control Freak to go !!!



#8 NotBanned

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 06:40 AM

... compare the current mayoral salaries of COMPARABLE cities, our mayor still makes the least.

 

Austin $47722

Charlestown $46021

Salem $50887

 

Sellersburg, being a town, has no mayor.  

OldPawpaw,

 

Either getthefacts is wrong or you are wrong.  Regardless he posted factual document excerpts and you did not.  Regardless, even if what you say is true that would put Mayor Hall's salary at ~$47,000 or according to getthefacts earlier post:

 

2014-OR-15 Mayor $46021.35  

 

That is still lower than Salem and Austin.



#9 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 12:39 PM

NotBanned,I was not disputing the current amount the mayor is getting paid compared to other cities, I was disputing the 15% increase, that getthefacts claimed, This post is about the fact that Mayor Hall does not want collective bargaining because it would give the police a position to bargain and he would loose some of his power to dictate to the police in the same manner that he dictates to the rest of the city. Collective bargaining involves more than just salary,it would involve all aspects of being a Police Officer. To be honest I could care less about what the Mayor of Salem or Austin make.The simple fact is that Bob Hall,King Bob,Dictator Bob,or Mayor Bob wants input from one person and one person alone.....................HIMSELF.


Edited by Old Pawpaw, 04 September 2015 - 12:51 PM.


#10 NotBanned

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 01:28 PM

Curious to know if there was any pay increase for Mayor during Mike Hall's term between 2004-2008.

 

Also curious to know that if, for arguments sake, Jeff Shepard gets elected Mayor and decides to pursue some of the things Mayor Hall currently is, would he be wrong or is it just because it is a Republican making decisions?  Or if Shepard makes decisions that you disagree with, will you defend him publicly or will you be just as visceral towards him as you are Hall?



#11 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 02:29 PM

NotBanned,again this is not about pay,it is about a man who would be King.I don't care if Bob Hall is a Democrat,Republican,Independent or a Martian for that matter. What I will do is speak-up when I see any Mayor do the type things that Bob Hall has done, I am not naive enough to think that I or anyone will always agree with any Mayor,what I will do is continue to speak-up whenever I feel an injustice is being done. I believe this forum is set-up to inform the public and as long as I am able to let the citizens of Charlestown know about the real Boss Hall,I will !!!  Jeff Sheperd will work with the City Council and have a open door that the citizens of Charlestown can use to vent their concerns.  Jeff Sheperd will care about ALL OF CHARLESTOWN and not just the people who will roll over to fit his vision!  Stay Strong Charlestown City Police, the majority of the good people of Charlestown and Jeff Sheperd are behind you!


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#12 NotBanned

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 02:55 PM

 Jeff Sheperd will work with the City Council and have a open door that the citizens of Charlestown can use to vent their concerns.  Jeff Sheperd will care about ALL OF CHARLESTOWN and not just the people who will roll over to fit his vision!  Stay Strong Charlestown City Police, the majority of the good people of Charlestown and Jeff Sheperd are behind you!

I am in no way trying to censor you from addressing anything you wish on this board.  That is what a forum facilitates (Although censorship is something I've encountered on this board rather frequently [by moderators], especially when it comes to our discussions).  I do not care about who is Mayor.  I only care about whether statements made publicly are true.  I only care about being able to provide factual information to support statements made.  The worst thing that can happen is, no matter who a person votes for, is if they vote based on bias or misinformation, whether intentionally delivered or not.

 

With all due respect, you can spare me the paragraph of rebuttal about Bob Hall not doing any of the things I just said as I already know where you stand, right or wrong.

 

The statement above I quoted is something you believe.  If he wins, I hope everything you state actually comes to be.  Technically he can't support 'all of Charlestown' because roughly 50% will still be Hall loyalists or partisan Republican that will reject anything done/said by a Democrat, regardless of who the person is or how irrational that makes them.  That cannot be overcome, but I get what you are saying.  It is my hope that if Mr. Shepard wins and two or so years into his term some of the political points he campaigned on do not happen or magically change, that you will still stand behind the quoted statement and be critical of him instead of rationalizing it.

 

P.S. - For any person who thinks I'm a Hall/Coomer supporter, Ms. Coomer and Mrs. Vaughn came through my neighborhood campaigning this week.  I did not engage them, I did not sign the voter registration.  For full disclosure, personally I like Donna and I like Keri and her family.  Politically I have no interest in anything they or anyone else has to say in terms of campaigning.



#13 getthefacts

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 04:22 PM

I had not intended my posts to open a debate about who should be mayor. I thought the topic was collective bargaining, and whether it was a necessary evil. My post was intended to show information comparing the salaries of Charlestowns staff to that of other cities and towns so people could have an accurate picture of what the mayor and police department are receiving. Then determine for themselves if the police department is so underpaid and lacking in benefits that collective bargaining is essential.

#14 NotBanned

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:12 PM

getthefacts,

 

One thing you will learn around here is that everything comes back to Bob Hall.  Those things that rightfully need to be blamed on him and innocent things, if they have even the smallest scent of politics in Charlestown, will be spun as evil Bob Hall puffing a cigar, feet on the desk, wringing his hands together having a big, hardy laugh.



#15 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 10:29 PM

NotBanned,what innocent things are you speaking of? Maybe the reason things keep coming back to Bob Hall is that he puts himself out there as the only one who can make any decisions,when it comes to Charlestown. Collective Bargaining,the attempt to raze Pleasant Ridge,no swimming pool,completing sidewalks on the main drag, instead of in front of the schools on Monroe and no water filtration system are five examples among many,that come to mind,where Bob Hall is making decisions without any thought given to the citizens or their representatives [City Council members} I don't believe any of these examples qualify as spin!



#16 getthefacts

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 10:38 PM

Doesn't the council approve the salary ordinances? If they believe the police department is underpaid, why not speak up before now?

#17 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 03:59 PM

NotBanned,your defense of Bob Hall driving the train, is that the kids love it,really? If Bob Hall,God forbid should be involved in a wreck with the" kids who love it" on board and he does not have the state required license he should be arrested and the city would be liable. Maybe you feel that "above the law" Bob Hall should not have to answer to the same laws that other citizens in our state must adhere to. The Monroe street schools have needed a sidewalk,for safety reasons for the entire time Bob Hall has been in office,he has the City Employees working on the highway 3 sidewalks, because he gets more political bang out of our tax dollars! If Pleasant Ridge does get razed,it will be under a City Council that is hand picked by Bob Hall. Instead of just taking out the homes that are in dis-repair and enforcing the home owner ordinances that apply to the rest of the town,then NotBanned tell me where it ends. NotBanned you may be right,speaking-out against obvious wrongs on any message board may be like talking to a wall,it probable does not accomplish much. Your continued defense of Bob Hall,may very well prove your point. 


Edited by Old Pawpaw, 05 September 2015 - 04:01 PM.


#18 Fact Checker

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 04:49 PM

Bob Hall will be re-elected again.  Sorry



#19 Old Pawpaw

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 05:20 PM

Fact Checker,If You are right Charlestown will be sorry!



#20 hillbilly highway

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 07:27 PM

Curious to know if there was any pay increase for Mayor during Mike Hall's term between 2004-2008.

Also curious to know that if, for arguments sake, Jeff Shepard gets elected Mayor and decides to pursue some of the things Mayor Hall currently is, would he be wrong or is it just because it is a Republican making decisions? Or if Shepard makes decisions that you disagree with, will you defend him publicly or will you be just as visceral towards him as you are Hall?

Bob Hall is no republican nor a Democrat not really sure what he is. Collective bargaining is one of the very few Things that employees can do in the state of Indiana that helps protect there jobs and quality of life. Other wise a employer can fire a employee AT WILL without cause and that is a issue. Indiana's laws only protect employers and that is sad. I'm happy for the officers they put their lives on the line everyday and they should be compensated well. Thanks to all of our officers throughout this county for what you do.
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