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#21 Tina

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 07:22 PM

https://www.facebook...tRegionalCities


Edited by Tina, 03 July 2015 - 07:22 PM.

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#22 Tina

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:26 AM

Wonderful article in Time magazine.  An excerpt from Gary Hart's book: http://time.com/3937...ica-corruption/

 

What would our founders make of this nightmare of corruption? We only know, in Thomas Jefferson’s case, for example, that his distrust of central government had to do with the well-founded and prescient suspicion that its largesse would go to powerful and influential interests, especially financiers, who knew how to manipulate both the government and the financial markets. In particular, Jefferson envisioned sophisticated bankers speculating in public-debt issues with some if not all the interest incurred going into their pockets.

 

 

Remember the determining factor for where the regional cities money goes?  The Indiana Economic Development CORPORATION decides where there will be the best "return on investment".   And yes, it is the same with TIF bonds.  They are SPECULATING with taxpayer money.

 

Gary Hart's prescription:

On a more personal level, how can public service be promoted as an ideal to young people when this sewer corrupts our Republic? At this point in early twenty-first-century America, the greatest service our nation’s young people could provide is to lead an army of outraged young Americans armed with brooms on a crusade to sweep out the rascals and rid our capital of the money changers, rent seekers, revolving door dancers, and special interest deal makers and power brokers and send them back home to make an honest living, that is, if they still remember how to do so.

 


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#23 Tina

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 01:02 PM

http://advanceindian...gional.html?m=1

Pence supporters are chosen as decision makers for where the carrot goes.
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#24 Big Bopper

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:34 PM

Tina,
Do you hate all of the government handouts?
Is there any that you like?

#25 Tina

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 11:14 PM

My motto is simple: it's not yours to give.

When spending other people's money - there should be more permission asked. I prefer referendums to TIF & other "new" ways to finance ideas. What they have done is changed our nation from getting the taxpayers to agree to a vision in order to make it happen - to a philosophy of "well, if they don't like what I'm doing, they can vote me out in 4 years". Or worse, they move those decisions of spending taxpayer money to an appointed board that can't even be voted out.
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#26 OpenEars

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:08 PM

Tina: your comment about the money being spent by an appointed board and not elected officials in relation to the RDA is wrong. You may be right on a lot of topics but this is not one of them.

RDA project properties being owned and tax exempt is not accurate. The only time the property would be tax exempt is if it is owned by the local government. For example, the Ohio River Green Way property is tax exempt. But if there is private investors who own or lease on the project's property, then no, it is not tax exempt. If the municipals supply the land where a project is going to be built, say a hotel or convention center, and there are private investors who own (say the Colgate facility that is being looked at for a convention center) or lease the property, then that property is not tax exempt. Either way, the property surrounding the project would increase in value and then contribute MORE tax revenue than it is currently. Even if the project was within a TIF, the surrounding property value would increase generating more revenue. If the project is a public use (Green Way or Big 4 Bridge for example), yes it is tax exempt, but the taxable property adjacent to the project would increase in taxable value (as in the City of Jeffersonville property surrounding the Big 4 project) offsetting the tax exempt public use parcels. Even then, the RDA would not own the property, the municipality would own it unless the fiscal body gave it to the RDA. Either way, the fiscal body has final say on it's use and financial obligation to the project.

When a project is submitted to the IEDC (Indiana Economic Development Corporation) for consideration of Regional Cities funding, there is a private developer contribution that is required of 60% or more. The other 40% will come from Regional Cities (20% State) and the municipality (20% local) to where the project is being built. The monies from state are being supplied by the tax amnesty program and not the general fund, therefore not costing tax payers by needing to add taxes. Also it is not taking away from anything in the state budget because the money is funds recouped from those stealing from the state (the people) to be given back to the people in the form of community improvement projects. BUT... local funds does not have to come in form of cash from the fiscal body's budget. That contribution can be in the form of infrastructure improvements already on the books (roads, sewers, etc), land asset (like in Clarksville, land already committed to the Greenway Project)... If a project is submitted to IEDC by the RDA several things need to happen for the project to begin.
The State has to select us as a Regional City.
Then the projects the IEDC wants to invest in are selected. This is based on a review for ROI (return on investment) by Indiana University Bloomington (one of the best business schools in the country). It is state money, so obviously the state will have a say. Our say is projects we want to be contributed to.

Once those things happen,
the RDA then goes to the local municipalities where the project(s) is being built and negotiates an agreement with those municipalities.
Once the private funding has been identified and the contract with the executives of the municipalities and private investors are ironed out, the contract then goes to the fiscal body of the municipalities where the project will take place for approval. Read that again: The Fiscal Bodies (elected officials of a town, city, county council) of the Municipalities have FINAL APPROVAL.

Only the municipalities where the projects are being executed. It's not a deal where ALL the RDA members fund a project in a single municipality. Example: If a project like the Colgate plant, that is in the Town of Clarksville, is selected to receive funding to make it into a whatever the plan calls for; Clark County, Floyd County, Washington County do not kick in funds for that, only Clarksville per the contract that is approved by their town council...

#27 OpenEars

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 01:19 PM

I encourage you and anyone who has questions/concerns to attend a Q&A workshop Monday the 20th at 2pm at Greater Clark County Schools admin building to hear it from the mouth of the horse Victor Smith, Indiana Secretary of Commerce. Get the facts on the RCI program at that meeting.

#28 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 02:31 PM

Please tell me why this meeting is being held at Greater Clark County Schools admin building --- a highly inconvenient location for most people to get to?   And on a Monday afternoon when most people are working??   It seems to me that if they really want the public to know what is going on and ask questions the meeting would be held in a better location and at a better time.    I am also concerned why the school system would be involved at all --- even for holding a meeting?   I believe I heard Supt. Melin say he was asked to be on the Board of One Southern Indiana but in my opinion a meeting such as this should NOT be held on school property or during work hours.   Or perhaps this is a way for Melin to try to garner support from business leaders and elected officials for his disastrous referendum?


Edited by IntegrityMatters, 18 July 2015 - 02:32 PM.

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#29 OpenEars

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 02:48 PM

That was the only time Victor Smith was available to come down prior to the Aug 31st deadline. The school volunteered the space because it is a meeting open to the entire community.

Dr. Melin has not asked for support from any businesses/business leaders for support. Unlike Floyd county when they went for their referendum. I sit on the college and career readiness committee and know this first hand. In the last meeting, he went out of his way not to ask for support. he actually said if you are not for it that's ok and if you are that's ok too. He said he's not in the business to lobby businesses for support of the referendum but to present the plan. He'd leave the lobbying community support to the groups who support it. By law, the school system is in a "blackout" period. After the school board approves the referendum to go in the ballot, the school corp is legally not allowed to push for support unless invited.

#30 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 04:43 PM

That was the only time Victor Smith was available to come down prior to the Aug 31st deadline. The school volunteered the space because it is a meeting open to the entire community.

Dr. Melin has not asked for support from any businesses/business leaders for support. Unlike Floyd county when they went for their referendum. I sit on the college and career readiness committee and know this first hand. In the last meeting, he went out of his way not to ask for support. he actually said if you are not for it that's ok and if you are that's ok too. He said he's not in the business to lobby businesses for support of the referendum but to present the plan. He'd leave the lobbying community support to the groups who support it. By law, the school system is in a "blackout" period. After the school board approves the referendum to go in the ballot, the school corp is legally not allowed to push for support unless invited.



To be accurate - the law does NOT apply to the superintendent, assistant superintendents, CFO and school board members:

d) Notwithstanding any other law, an elected or appointed school board member or a school corporation superintendent, school corporation assistant superintendent, or chief school business official of a school corporation may at any time:
(1) personally advocate for or against a position on a referendum; or
(2) discuss the referendum with any individual, group, or organization or personally advocate for or against a position on a referendum before any individual, group, or organization; 
so long as it is not done by using public funds. Advocacy or discussion allowed under this subsection is not considered a use of public funds.

 

This may be why the Board recently hired another assistant superintendent and changed the title of the Executive Director for elementary Education to Assistant Superintendent for elementary education.  GCCS now has a superintendent, 3 assistant superintendents and a CFO, along with the school board, who can advocate at any time.

 

Other school employees are only in a "blackout" period during school hours.   After school hours they may advocate for or against the referendum.

 

It is a shame that Mr. Smith would not agree to come at a later time -- and hold the meeting someplace more convenient.  For example - Jeff High would be far more convenient to most people than the admin building.  jmo


Edited by IntegrityMatters, 18 July 2015 - 04:44 PM.

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#31 OpenEars

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:36 PM

I was not aware that law did not apply to the super. I thought it applied to all school employees. Thanks for that.

I agree that it would be better if Smith could attend at a different time. As would Jeff high. But also, with the RDA/RCI involving so many, it could have as easily been held in Scottsburg, Salem, or Corydon. I'm just happy it's in this neck of the woods.

Edited by OpenEars, 18 July 2015 - 06:44 PM.


#32 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:55 PM

It will be interesting to see how many people - other than elected officials or 1SI officials - are able to attend.   Not many "regular folks" can go at 2 o'clock on a Monday afternoon.    Maybe there will be another opportunity at a more convenient time and locale for the public to have a say.



#33 OpenEars

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 07:20 PM

I think there will be. Floyd County is going to be hosting an informational workshop from what I understand. Don't think there's been a date decided yet. When I find out I'll post it on here.

#34 kelley

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 09:35 PM

IM, I've seen a list of dates and times floating around somewhere in which RDA/RCI will be discussed in one forum or another, though they won't be ideally timed to learn more as some key votes will likely be taken at these meetings.

As soon as I track the list down, I'll pass it on.

#35 Donna

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 09:51 PM

I'll be at the admin bldg. at 2 pm on Monday.  I'll be happy to take notes and report!


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#36 Big Bopper

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 08:10 AM

Tina,

Thank you for your answer.  I guess that I didn't word it quite right.

Are you opposed to government programs that encourage investments.

The types of programs that favor one class of people over another?



#37 Tina

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 09:07 AM

Tina,

Thank you for your answer.  I guess that I didn't word it quite right.

Are you opposed to government programs that encourage investments.

The types of programs that favor one class of people over another?

Pretty sure everyone likes the programs that benefit them in some way.  Doesn't mean that I would vote in favor of them.

Every dollar taken from a taxpayer to go to state/local government is a dollar not spent in our local economy.  Until we create "programs" to beg for it to come back.  It's so ridiculous to me.



#38 Tina

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 09:25 AM

Tina: your comment about the money being spent by an appointed board and not elected officials in relation to the RDA is wrong. You may be right on a lot of topics but this is not one of them.

RDA project properties being owned and tax exempt is not accurate. The only time the property would be tax exempt is if it is owned by the local government. For example, the Ohio River Green Way property is tax exempt. But if there is private investors who own or lease on the project's property, then no, it is not tax exempt. If the municipals supply the land where a project is going to be built, say a hotel or convention center, and there are private investors who own (say the Colgate facility that is being looked at for a convention center) or lease the property, then that property is not tax exempt.

 
I fear you are being told one thing (perhaps by lobbyists?) instead of reading the actual state statute.

The legislation defining the regional development authority makes it a separate political subdivision. Therefore anything the RDA purchases becomes "government owned".  Regardless, the state is abundantly clear, imo.  If the RDA owns it, it is tax exempt.  
IC 36-7.6-4-13 Tax exemption
Sec. 13. (a) All:
(1) property owned by a development authority;
(2) revenue of a development authority; and
(3) bonds issued by a development authority, the interest on the bonds, the proceeds received by a holder from the sale of bonds to the extent of the holder’s cost of acquisition, proceeds received upon redemption before maturity, proceeds received at maturity, and the receipt of interest in proceeds;
are exempt from taxation in Indiana for all purposes except the financial institutions tax imposed under IC 6-5.5 or a state inheritance tax imposed under IC 6-4.1. (b) All securities issued under this chapter are exempt from the Indiana Code 2015 registration requirements of IC 23-19 and other securities registration statutes. As added by P.L.232-2007, SEC.7. Amended by P.L.1-2009, SEC.169.
 

Either way, the property surrounding the project would increase in value and then contribute MORE tax revenue than it is currently. Even if the project was within a TIF, the surrounding property value would increase generating more revenue.
If the project is a public use (Green Way or Big 4 Bridge for example), yes it is tax exempt, but the taxable property adjacent to the project would increase in taxable value (as in the City of Jeffersonville property surrounding the Big 4 project) offsetting the tax exempt public use parcels. Even then, the RDA would not own the property, the municipality would own it unless the fiscal body gave it to the RDA. Either way, the fiscal body has final say on it's use and financial obligation to the project.

 

Yes, this is the same argument I hear in favor of TIF all the time. If this were true, Clarksville should have the highest property values in all of the county. Hmmm... but that's NOT the case. If TIFs actually helped the schools, maybe demand for properties surrounding a TIF would increase in value, but alas, TIF actually takes away from the schools. As a Realtor, I can tell you highest demand and therefore highest property values tend to surround the best schools - not the TIF areas.
 

When a project is submitted to the IEDC (Indiana Economic Development Corporation) for consideration of Regional Cities funding, there is a private developer contribution that is required of 60% or more. The other 40% will come from Regional Cities (20% State) and the municipality (20% local) to where the project is being built. The monies from state are being supplied by the tax amnesty program and not the general fund, therefore not costing tax payers by needing to add taxes. Also it is not taking away from anything in the state budget because the money is funds recouped from those stealing from the state (the people) to be given back to the people in the form of community improvement projects. BUT... local funds does not have to come in form of cash from the fiscal body's budget. That contribution can be in the form of infrastructure improvements already on the books (roads, sewers, etc), land asset (like in Clarksville, land already committed to the Greenway Project)...


Can I ask you for a direct source on that?
Either way, you use percentages but I actually like to do the math. Let's say a project - like your Ohio River Greenways project costs $150 million dollars. So what you are saying is 60% would come from private developers. 20% from the state ($30,000,000) and 20% from the locals (again $30,000,000). But, now, instead of Clarksville paying for their riverfront development they want Clark County, Floyd County, Harrison County, Washington County and Scott County to contribute to that $30,000,000?  Or are you saying Clarksville has $30,000,000 sitting around to match with the state?

 

But wait?  I thought the state only has $21,000,000 to give for each of the first two years?  So if $30,000,000 is going to go to Clarksville, that leaves $9,000,000 for the rest of the region??

 

The article says it will also cost $3-$4 million a YEAR to maintain.

Numbers from: http://www.newsandtr...ets-a-makeover/

 

If a project is submitted to IEDC by the RDA several things need to happen for the project to begin.
The State has to select us as a Regional City.
Then the projects the IEDC wants to invest in are selected. This is based on a review for ROI (return on investment) by Indiana University Bloomington (one of the best business schools in the country). It is state money, so obviously the state will have a say. Our say is projects we want to be contributed to.


Actually here's the people that will make the decision:

http://advanceindian...gional.html?m=1
 

Once those things happen,
the RDA then goes to the local municipalities where the project(s) is being built and negotiates an agreement with those municipalities.
Once the private funding has been identified and the contract with the executives of the municipalities and private investors are ironed out, the contract then goes to the fiscal body of the municipalities where the project will take place for approval. Read that again: The Fiscal Bodies (elected officials of a town, city, county council) of the Municipalities have FINAL APPROVAL.

Only the municipalities where the projects are being executed. It's not a deal where ALL the RDA members fund a project in a single municipality. Example: If a project like the Colgate plant, that is in the Town of Clarksville, is selected to receive funding to make it into a whatever the plan calls for; Clark County, Floyd County, Washington County do not kick in funds for that, only Clarksville per the contract that is approved by their town council...

Again, if Clarksville has $30,000,000 extra sitting around right now, we all need to talk.

If all the counties had to do was get together and set up some interlocal agreements to help each other become a better region, I would not be fighting this "program". We are setting up an entirely new government system which takes away power from the local units and gives it higher.  The power also rests with an appointed board.

Does the ordinance still say that if the county joins that all municipalities are a part of it?
If so, if the county joins, and Clarksville's river project is chosen, will the other municipalities in Clark be on the hook??

 

Finally, although certain people are saying if we don't get chosen to get the state money this regional development authority won't actually do anything... can you promise me they won't apply for FEMA grants or DHS grants or any other FEDERAL money that also comes with significant chains? Before accepting funds with major mandates, would they have to get the fiscal bodies approval?
 


Edited by Tina, 20 July 2015 - 09:42 AM.

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#39 kelley

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 10:05 AM

Glad to see you survived church camp, Tina!
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#40 OpenEars

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 10:55 AM

I encourage you and anyone who has questions/concerns to attend a Q&A workshop Monday the 20th at 2pm at Greater Clark County Schools admin building to hear it from the mouth of the horse Victor Smith, Indiana Secretary of Commerce. Get the facts on the RCI program at that meeting.






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