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Can you feel the HIV Squeeze yet?

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#21 Oldgoat

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:42 PM

Yep. And no where in that story did they say their daughter should have been in prison or that we as a society should have been striving to "make her life hell".

Drug addicts make their own life hell! Absolutely no reason that society should have to put up with them endangering others because of their bad choices.



#22 Oldgoat

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:02 PM

So basically lets round up drug users, individuals with HIV, AIDS, etc and lock them up in an institution? If you DON'T treat the WHOLE person then you've done nothing to help them.  Individuals with drug addictions are not bad people-they typically have multiple issues contributing to their addiction.  Locking them up away from society isn't an answer..I wish I knew the answer but thats not it.  The needle exchange is a start.  More treatment centers that are FREE for those who want help would be another answer. The methadone clinic-though loathed by many-is another answer-at least those going there are not using heroin and leaving dirty needles laying around.

Mary, that is a very caring and emotion based post.  Unfortunately, emotional decisions are rarely wise. In my post I stated that those that were known to be sharing needles or putting others at risk should be basically quarantined, not imprisoned.  If these people know they are sick and share needles or have unprotected sex they are very certainly BAD PEOPLE and a threat to us all.  If they do not engage in high risk behavior they are NOT a threat and I do not advocate sequestration in any way for them.

  Anybody over the age of 10 in this country has at least some knowledge of the destructive nature of illicit drugs.  When they CHOOSE to put a needle in their body they are disrespecting themselves and everyone that cares about them.  We all have trials and tribulations.  That is not an excuse!  I might add that MANY of the clients at the methodone clinics still use illegal drugs too.  Common sense must trump emotion.



#23 Mary

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 11:43 PM

Mary, that is a very caring and emotion based post.  Unfortunately, emotional decisions are rarely wise. In my post I stated that those that were known to be sharing needles or putting others at risk should be basically quarantined, not imprisoned.  If these people know they are sick and share needles or have unprotected sex they are very certainly BAD PEOPLE and a threat to us all.  If they do not engage in high risk behavior they are NOT a threat and I do not advocate sequestration in any way for them.

  Anybody over the age of 10 in this country has at least some knowledge of the destructive nature of illicit drugs.  When they CHOOSE to put a needle in their body they are disrespecting themselves and everyone that cares about them.  We all have trials and tribulations.  That is not an excuse!  I might add that MANY of the clients at the methodone clinics still use illegal drugs too.  Common sense must trump emotion.

And likewise your response is one based on emotions-an emotion of fear and misunderstanding. "These people" are very sick and have an addiction that controls every aspect of their life and they share needles because the options are limited-they can't go buy clean needles without a prescription. I can't verify your report of unprotected sex by individuals who know they are HIV positive, but can tell you that the cases of HIV in Scott county have been verified to be as a direct result of sharing needles.  If a person knowingly has unprotected sex with individuals without informing them they are HIV positive then yes that is a CRIME and is punishable under the law. I'm not sure how individuals with HIV are "a threat to us all." Yes everyone over the age of 10 has some knowledge of the destructive nature of illicit drugs, but everyone also has that "can't happen to me" mentality too.  You would be amazed to find out who around you is doing heroin-probably more then you realize-lawyers, business executives, doctors, nurses, teachers, welders, and more-the use of heroin is epidemic!  Yep, everyone has trials and tribulations and everyone handles them differently.   I used to sit back and act as an armchair expert too and I used to think that those who committed suicide were just weak and could have controlled their depression and should have been able to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not use it as an excuse..that is until I experienced such tremendous loss that I found myself in such a deep depression and I considered the benefits to ending my life.  It took me 3 years to work through that depression but the difference is..I had the resources, support, and connections to get the help I needed.  Something many of these addicts don't have!  I don't doubt there are clients who go to the methadone clinic who still use illegal drugs and by doing so put their lives at risk, but there are many who go there who really want to get themselves clean and follow the program and don't use illicit drugs.  I guess I just prefer to live life thinking this- "There but for the Grace of God go I!"


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#24 Oldgoat

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

And likewise your response is one based on emotions-an emotion of fear and misunderstanding. "These people" are very sick and have an addiction that controls every aspect of their life and they share needles because the options are limited-they can't go buy clean needles without a prescription. I can't verify your report of unprotected sex by individuals who know they are HIV positive, but can tell you that the cases of HIV in Scott county have been verified to be as a direct result of sharing needles.  If a person knowingly has unprotected sex with individuals without informing them they are HIV positive then yes that is a CRIME and is punishable under the law. I'm not sure how individuals with HIV are "a threat to us all." Yes everyone over the age of 10 has some knowledge of the destructive nature of illicit drugs, but everyone also has that "can't happen to me" mentality too.  You would be amazed to find out who around you is doing heroin-probably more then you realize-lawyers, business executives, doctors, nurses, teachers, welders, and more-the use of heroin is epidemic!  Yep, everyone has trials and tribulations and everyone handles them differently.   I used to sit back and act as an armchair expert too and I used to think that those who committed suicide were just weak and could have controlled their depression and should have been able to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not use it as an excuse..that is until I experienced such tremendous loss that I found myself in such a deep depression and I considered the benefits to ending my life.  It took me 3 years to work through that depression but the difference is..I had the resources, support, and connections to get the help I needed.  Something many of these addicts don't have!  I don't doubt there are clients who go to the methadone clinic who still use illegal drugs and by doing so put their lives at risk, but there are many who go there who really want to get themselves clean and follow the program and don't use illicit drugs.  I guess I just prefer to live life thinking this- "There but for the Grace of God go I!"

There is nothing emotional about not wanting hundreds of modern day "Typhoid Marys" walking around infecting others.  They made their choices and they must live with the consequences but there is no reason the rest of us should have to.  AS far as your last sentence, it's not about the Grace of God but rather the CHOICE to ignore HIS laws which were given to us for OUR PROTECTION, not out of Divine vindictiveness.  Suffice to say that if we all lived according to God's Word there might be a handful of people in darkest Africa that acquired HIV from eating infected monkeys rather than a worldwide epidemic that has claimed millions of lives.



#25 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 11:36 AM

AS far as your last sentence, it's not about the Grace of God but rather the CHOICE to ignore HIS laws which were given to us for OUR PROTECTION, not out of Divine vindictiveness.  Suffice to say that if we all lived according to God's Word there might be a handful of people in darkest Africa that acquired HIV from eating infected monkeys rather than a worldwide epidemic that has claimed millions of lives.

 

That's what she said!

 

burqa.jpg



#26 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 11:56 AM

This grieving family tells it like it is!   http://www.wlky.com/...linkId=13701582

 

 

Yep. And no where in that story did they say their daughter should have been in prison or that we as a society should have been striving to "make her life hell".

 

 

Drug addicts make their own life hell! Absolutely no reason that society should have to put up with them endangering others because of their bad choices.

 

You can rant until you're blue in the face and it won't make what I said any less true. Nowhere did the family that YOU said was "telling it like it is" suggest that their daughter should have been in prison or that we as a society should have been striving to "make her life hell".



#27 JenS

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 12:06 PM

So basically lets round up drug users, individuals with HIV, AIDS, etc and lock them up in an institution? If you DON'T treat the WHOLE person then you've done nothing to help them.  Individuals with drug addictions are not bad people-they typically have multiple issues contributing to their addiction.  Locking them up away from society isn't an answer..I wish I knew the answer but thats not it.  The needle exchange is a start.  More treatment centers that are FREE for those who want help would be another answer. The methadone clinic-though loathed by many-is another answer-at least those going there are not using heroin and leaving dirty needles laying around. I have to respectfully disagree about the 'patron' at least not using heroine. That is completely wrong and I do know that for a FACT. Personal experiences. Many of those people are taking the methadone and the heroine because a little talked about fact is that combining it with other drugs is like a super booster. I personally know people who do this.



#28 JenS

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 12:06 PM

so.....Chatter is doing a weird Quote thing.

#29 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 12:10 PM

If these "modern day Typhoid Marys" are walking around infecting others (I don't think HIV is actually spread by walking around) then that means that innocent people are infected. So do those innocent people deserve the same treatment being proposed for IV drug users? Or are we going to have to develop some sort of system to verify the origin of their infection? Judging our fellow human beings is harder than it looks! Maybe that's why it's best left up to God.



#30 kelley

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 02:34 PM

There is nothing emotional about not wanting hundreds of modern day "Typhoid Marys" walking around infecting others. They made their choices and they must live with the consequences but there is no reason the rest of us should have to. AS far as your last sentence, it's not about the Grace of God but rather the CHOICE to ignore HIS laws which were given to us for OUR PROTECTION, not out of Divine vindictiveness. Suffice to say that if we all lived according to God's Word there might be a handful of people in darkest Africa that acquired HIV from eating infected monkeys rather than a worldwide epidemic that has claimed millions of lives.



But are we supposed to judge people for their choices, or are we supposed to love them anyway? If it's love, does writing off and quarantining all the "BAD PEOPLE" qualify?
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#31 Oldgoat

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 03:50 PM

You can rant until you're blue in the face and it won't make what I said any less true. Nowhere did the family that YOU said was "telling it like it is" suggest that their daughter should have been in prison or that we as a society should have been striving to "make her life hell".

They clearly stated that "You need to stay on top of them!"  In the English that I learned in school that means they need to be "watched".  Now if you can afford to quit your jobs and dedicate your life to "watching" them, gooD  If you can't,  they need to be put where they can be "watched"!



#32 Oldgoat

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 03:56 PM

That's what she said!

 

burqa.jpg

As usual PNG, your post has absolutely no connection to mine. One, yours, shows active intolerance and the Middle Easts version of fascist liberals forcing their views on others.  In mine, I state that people that make stupid decisions should not expect us to facilitate their continued bad decisions by supporting them and allowing them to put others at risk.  Surely you can differentiate between the two...........?????.......



#33 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:23 PM

They clearly stated that "You need to stay on top of them!"  In the English that I learned in school that means they need to be "watched".  Now if you can afford to quit your jobs and dedicate your life to "watching" them, gooD  If you can't,  they need to be put where they can be "watched"!

 

Here's the quote, in context...

 

"Don’t believe that your addict is clean. Don’t do it. You have to be diligent. Stay right on top of them.” They're talking about family. Hence the term "your addict".


Edited by Persona Non Grata, 23 April 2015 - 04:37 PM.


#34 Mary

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:50 PM

 

So basically lets round up drug users, individuals with HIV, AIDS, etc and lock them up in an institution? If you DON'T treat the WHOLE person then you've done nothing to help them.  Individuals with drug addictions are not bad people-they typically have multiple issues contributing to their addiction.  Locking them up away from society isn't an answer..I wish I knew the answer but thats not it.  The needle exchange is a start.  More treatment centers that are FREE for those who want help would be another answer. The methadone clinic-though loathed by many-is another answer-at least those going there are not using heroin and leaving dirty needles laying around. I have to respectfully disagree about the 'patron' at least not using heroine. That is completely wrong and I do know that for a FACT. Personal experiences. Many of those people are taking the methadone and the heroine because a little talked about fact is that combining it with other drugs is like a super booster. I personally know people who do this.

 

 

As I said in my last post to OG-I am sure there are some who do use other illicit drugs while going to the clinic, but I also do know for a FACT-personal experiences that not all the individuals going there use other illicit drugs and are following the program, going to meetings, seeing counselors, passing their drug tests-not cheating, because they WANT to get clean.

 

There is nothing emotional about not wanting hundreds of modern day "Typhoid Marys" walking around infecting others.  They made their choices and they must live with the consequences but there is no reason the rest of us should have to.  AS far as your last sentence, it's not about the Grace of God but rather the CHOICE to ignore HIS laws which were given to us for OUR PROTECTION, not out of Divine vindictiveness.  Suffice to say that if we all lived according to God's Word there might be a handful of people in darkest Africa that acquired HIV from eating infected monkeys rather than a worldwide epidemic that has claimed millions of lives.

For starters HIV is NOT spread via walking around others-it is spread via blood born pathogens, unprotected sex, sharing of needles among infected individuals, contact with bodily fluids with mucous membranes or broken skin. If you are scared you might get infected then you might be the one who needs to seclude yourself and not leave your home because there are people living with HIV all around you and you won't find track marks in their arms!  I personally know individuals with HIV who are teachers in our schools, health care providers, restaurant workers, store clerks, plumbers, students, hairdressers!  I think PNG's quote says it all!  We must speak the truth in love.


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#35 Jules

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 06:13 PM

I don't have a problem with expecting addicts/users to show consideration in regards to what they do with their used needles...While I do believe addiction is a physiological condition ( and not just a choice) that doesn't excuse someone from not trying to do the right thing and possibly endanger others...As crazy as it probably sounds it would have probably bothered almost as much as his own use if I'd felt my son was being careless with the needles he did use and posing a threat to others with them...As it was, we never saw the first needle except the one found under him the night he died...I'd like to think he was at the least a "thoughtful towards others" user.


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#36 Mary

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 06:39 PM

I don't have a problem with expecting addicts/users to show consideration in regards to what they do with their used needles...While I do believe addiction is a physiological condition ( and not just a choice) that doesn't excuse someone from not trying to do the right thing and possibly endanger others...As crazy as it probably sounds it would have probably bothered almost as much as his own use if I'd felt my son was being careless with the needles he did use and posing a threat to others with them...As it was, we never saw the first needle except the one found under him the night he died...I'd like to think he was at the least a "thoughtful towards others" user.

Ditto!



#37 grammy

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 08:28 PM

When I went and cleaned out my daughters apt there were needles hidden everywhere . Under toilet seats, in shoes and even in my granddaughters room. We were afraid to pick up anything. I was never so angry as I was that night. I couldn't believe how careless she had been. I'm not sure if she used dirty needles since I found a box of over 500 new ones in a moving box she packed. But I do know she didn't care where she placed her used needle. Now sadly she hasn't been to my house since Christmas but my husband found a dirty needle on the sidewalk in front of our house in downtown Jeff about a month ago. He walked in with it and thought she was here . So for us to think Jeff is immune and it's not here we are deceiving ourselves. And I pray for everyone who is facing this addiction.

Edited by grammy, 23 April 2015 - 08:29 PM.

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#38 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 08:50 PM

And I pray for everyone who is facing this addiction.


How do you feel about this statement?

I like the laws overseas in countries like Turkey, China, Hong Kong etc. They do not coddle the drug users and dealers. They make their lives hell!!!



#39 grammy

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:56 PM

My daughters life is hell. I don't know any of the answers that will help her but we don't need govts to make it harder for her. I guess you can't really understand how heroin affects a person and their family until it's your family . It is hell everyday to wonder if it's your daughters last day .
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#40 kelley

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:57 PM

My daughters life is hell. I don't know any of the answers that will help her but we don't need govts to make it harder for her. I guess you can't really understand how heroin affects a person and their family until it's your family . It is hell everyday to wonder if it's your daughters last day .


I'm so sorry.
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