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I feel another hit to my wallet coming!!

Sewer tax rates again

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#41 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 08:18 AM

[quote name="woo" post="155216" timestamp="1429705461"]Your own words......[/quote

Yes, that was my post. The canal cost was always a moving target. No different than any other project. The pipe, or interceptor line, was first estimated at 32 million. Latest estimate is 45 million. Actual cost has been estimated as high as 50 million plus by some. No matter the project there are always unexpected costs.

If you want to take time to go back and review all articles on the canal I think you will find the 52 million dollar cost the most consistent. Going from memory I think the 62 to 65 million cost estimate was the result of Galligan playing politics and adding amenities before the election. I still stand by the 40 million price as the lowest cost for a working canal. The rest of the cost is just the cost of amenities. I believe that 60 something million dollar cost estimate also included a million dollar welcome to Jeff waterfall and 40 foot tall sign at 10th and Spring. Amenities like that aren't needed.

There is a big difference in basic and fully loaded.

Galligan had a developer willing to invest 100 million in Jeff, Moore has been working two years or better trying to get a 25 million dollar development. Seems we have taken a giant step backwards in the last 3 and a half years.

#42 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 08:30 AM

Whether it is a canal or underground pipes, its gonna cost the taxpayers a butt load of cash! How can a resident on a fixed income survive anymore in this city. Every time we turn around they are finding new ways to screw over the residents. I still have not recovered from the 2009 flood where the city of Louisville had FEMA there that afternoon and our useless governor waited 19 days before sending down an Arson inspector from Homeland Security to inspect the flood damage. Then  the city was given $1.2 million to help with the damage to the residents that sustained massive losses. The last three mayors cared about the flooding of the city only three times, when it was election time. After they won or loss they forgot about it. I will have to say out of the last three at least Galligan had a clue. Tom knew about drainage from running his own excavating company. Moore and Waiz knew nothing about it and still don't.


I think the clean waters act was passed in 1972. Every mayor since then has known what needed to be done in order to comply. CSO problems are nothing new. Once a mayor is elected their next priority is getting reelected. Only exception to this rule was Parker, he was in way over his head.

Just wondering, back in 1937 when just about the whole city was under water, did the residents wait for the government to send FEMA and a mobile home or did they role up their sleeves and go at it?
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#43 woo

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 08:56 AM

Galligan had a developer willing to invest 100 million in Jeff,

Yet, no one has ever posted a copy of this proposal.....

I have tried, and found no written record of it.

 

Galligan was known to bend the truth a little here and there to get his way.


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#44 Kruger87

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:13 AM


Just wondering, back in 1937 when just about the whole city was under water, did the residents wait for the government to send FEMA and a mobile home or did they role up their sleeves and go at it?

Well my home was built in 1922 and it was in the 37 flood. As for that flood there was not much anyone could do except move to higher ground. In the 2009 flood there was a huge problem with the 10th street pump station if you remember. No one was there to turn the pumps on that morning to manual. Hell Jorge Lanz told me personally that by the time they tried to get there it was underwater!! As for the rolling up the sleeves that is what the wife and I did!! By the time FEMA got here we had all the damage out of the house. The inspector asked me where the damage material was and I had to answer his question with a question. where the hell were you 19 days ago? Then followed with " was I supposed to wait and live in filth and mold while waiting for your arrival?"



#45 kelley

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:21 AM

Everything in Jeff is politicized beyond recognition. Current administration is paying Promedia to politicize everything. How many press releases and TV stations does it take to announce a project?

Yes, low cost housing was eliminated,but is it any different with the 10th Street project? Almost any economic development project will happen in the oldest part of any community. Hardly ever see new homes being purchased by government with the intent of razing them for development projects.

under Moore we have seen our low cost boat docks destroyed. Residents have had to move their boats, some of them being their only home, so a politician can achieve his dream.

As long as we have politicians lies will be told. The current administration is just as bad as any when it comes to stretching the truth and hiding the truth. Can't believe any of them. They all lie.

No matter the project, no matter the location, people will always be upset when they are forced to sell their home and move.


The politicized comment was Ed's.

There is no excuse for taking advantage of people.
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#46 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:24 AM

Yet, no one has ever posted a copy of this proposal.....
I have tried, and found no written record of it.
 
Galligan was known to bend the truth a little here and there to get his way.


If you want to take the time to go back and review newspaper coverage you should find a lot of references to this. It was not something kept a secret, the developer was even in Jeff at the all day workshop. He also was present for a canal meeting held in the city council chambers. If you search for convention center/hotel you should find something. Or search for the firm of Matthews Southwest as nothing was kept secret by Galligan. He loved to talk about the project.

All politicians bend the truth from time to time, but I only know of one that walks out in the middle of meeting if he doesn't get his way.

#47 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:06 AM

The politicized comment was Ed's.
There is no excuse for taking advantage of people.


I agree, but the same process applies to the rich as well as the poor, get two appraisals and offer the average of the two. Was this not done? If the city followed the process than no one was taken advantage of.

But perhaps some laws need to be rewritten. Property acquired for the canal was paid for by redevelopment using ITF funds. However, property being acquired for 10th Street by redevelopment is being funded by the feds. Same process, but if the owners can't find equal housing for the money they received the redevelopment board is obligated to pay more so the residents can obtain equal housing. This is a better way of buying out residential property. The key is the use of federal funds.

#48 Big Bopper

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:36 AM

If you want to take the time to go back and review newspaper coverage you should find a lot of references to this. It was not something kept a secret, the developer was even in Jeff at the all day workshop. He also was present for a canal meeting held in the city council chambers. If you search for convention center/hotel you should find something. Or search for the firm of Matthews Southwest as nothing was kept secret by Galligan. He loved to talk about the project.

All politicians bend the truth from time to time, but I only know of one that walks out in the middle of meeting if he doesn't get his way.

I remember one mayor who took his marbles and stayed away for over a year. :shifty:



#49 kelley

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:37 AM

I agree, but the same process applies to the rich as well as the poor, get two appraisals and offer the average of the two. Was this not done? If the city followed the process than no one was taken advantage of.

But perhaps some laws need to be rewritten. Property acquired for the canal was paid for by redevelopment using ITF funds. However, property being acquired for 10th Street by redevelopment is being funded by the feds. Same process, but if the owners can't find equal housing for the money they received the redevelopment board is obligated to pay more so the residents can obtain equal housing. This is a better way of buying out residential property. The key is the use of federal funds.



Not everyone understands the rules of eminent domain, and those representing the city sure as hell didn't explain it to them. It wasn't even used. All the property owners knew is the city wanted their property, and they believed they had no choice.

#50 Kruger87

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:57 AM

I agree, but the same process applies to the rich as well as the poor, get two appraisals and offer the average of the two. Was this not done? If the city followed the process than no one was taken advantage of.

But perhaps some laws need to be rewritten. Property acquired for the canal was paid for by redevelopment using ITF funds. However, property being acquired for 10th Street by redevelopment is being funded by the feds. Same process, but if the owners can't find equal housing for the money they received the redevelopment board is obligated to pay more so the residents can obtain equal housing. This is a better way of buying out residential property. The key is the use of federal funds.

Mike,

Federal funds were available back in 2009 and 2010 and the city did nothing after they found the stipulations to use the funds. Then this administration gave back the money. So if I am the federal government and you come ask me for more money I am leaning to say no.



#51 Kruger87

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 11:00 AM

Not everyone understands the rules of eminent domain, and those representing the city sure as hell didn't explain it to them. It wasn't even used. All the property owners knew is the city wanted their property, and they believed they had no choice.

I can give you the names of 3 of my former neighbors who the city told them they had no choice. They were told if it went to Eminent Domain they would still have to move out until the hearing date. After I learned this it was too late for me to pass along a name of a law firm I was using in Louisville in case I got the same threat. It is unfortunate that we have people in these city department that use a scare tactic like this to get what they want at any cost.


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#52 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 12:20 PM

I can give you the names of 3 of my former neighbors who the city told them they had no choice. They were told if it went to Eminent Domain they would still have to move out until the hearing date. After I learned this it was too late for me to pass along a name of a law firm I was using in Louisville in case I got the same threat. It is unfortunate that we have people in these city department that use a scare tactic like this to get what they want at any cost.


Well, I think that is true. If they use eminent domain the city can still take the property,make people move out, and the courts can later decide the fair price for the property. But of course all the rules most be followed. It's a bad situation for both sides as most people don't like change or having to move. And we all want more than appraisers say our property is worth. After all, it's our property, not theirs!

#53 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 12:34 PM

Not everyone understands the rules of eminent domain, and those representing the city sure as hell didn't explain it to them. It wasn't even used. All the property owners knew is the city wanted their property, and they believed they had no choice.


Pretty sure the city hired Greg Fifers firm to negotiate the purchase price of all the property. And Greg probably didn't explain any more than was required by law. If they hired an attorney they may have got more money or, after attorney fees, they may end up with less money. From what I see the city paid market prices or close to it for the property.

#54 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 07:36 PM

(Sure wish my Quote button worked -- any idea why it doesn't Quasar?)

 

Anyway, Mike you said...."As long as we have politicians lies will be told.....they all lie".    So are you saying this is what we can expect if Julius is elected?   More lies? 

I find it very strange that we have heard nothing from Julius ----- just exactly what is his stance on this?  Or is he relying on you and Ed Z to speak for him? 

I remember when you were totally against the canal and wanted Moore to win in order to stop it ---- now that he did so it seems like you support the canal?  I guess politicians aren't the only ones who "flip-flop"!.    Hindsight is 20-20


Edited by IntegrityMatters, 22 April 2015 - 07:42 PM.

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#55 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:17 PM

(Sure wish my Quote button worked -- any idea why it doesn't Quasar?)
 
Anyway, Mike you said...."As long as we have politicians lies will be told.....they all lie".    So are you saying this is what we can expect if Julius is elected?   More lies? 
I find it very strange that we have heard nothing from Julius ----- just exactly what is his stance on this?  Or is he relying on you and Ed Z to speak for him? 
I remember when you were totally against the canal and wanted Moore to win in order to stop it ---- now that he did so it seems like you support the canal?  I guess politicians aren't the only ones who "flip-flop"!.    Hindsight is 20-20


Alice, I'd be a fool to say the next mayor won't lie to us, but I sure hope the lies and games will be a lot less under our next mayor. Politicians often paint themselves into a corner and lie to save face. We need to elect the most qualified and most honest people we can find.

Let me make one thing clear, I don't speak for Julius. He will run his own campaign and speak for himself.

And yes, I was anti canal last election. Why? I believed a politician that said he had talked to engineers from Indy and found a way to resolve downtown flooding at a low cost. I believed in the candidate that said city hall employees would not have to walk on eggshells any longer or be fearful for their jobs. I believed in a candidate that said he would reduce wasteful spending of city tax dollars and reduce the number of take home vehicles. One that said he would listen to the citizens and operate from consensus of residents. A candidate that said he would not play politics and look after the best interest of the residents. I believed in a candidate that said we could trust him, one that would not change once elected. The candidate I backed and voted for never took office, instead we have another politician that loves to spend our tax dollars and doesn't know how to tell the truth.

I was blinded by lies. I can now see all the benefits of the canal from resolving downtown flooding to causing a downtown economic redevelopment beyond imagination. Galligan had a complete plan from retail to housing to parks that we could have been proud of. There was a team of investors from across the country ready to invest millions in Jeffersonville.

Instead, I supported the biggest loser Jeffersonville has ever elected. We ousted a mayor that had investors ready to make investments in Jeffersonville in the hundreds of million dollars and elected one that has hodgepodge developments in the past three years. He has wasted 2 years by being DUPED by an investor with insufficient funds.

Yes, I made a big mistake, it won't happen again!
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#56 IntegrityMatters

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 07:29 AM

    "We need to elect the most qualified and most honest people we can find."    

 

    I agree with that statement Mike although it is a sad fact that "the most honest" and "the most qualified" want nothing to do with the shenanigans involved with politics.  Honest people don't play games -- they don't hire their relatives -- they don't refuse to resign when they are guilty of a felony -- they don't waste taxpayer dollars on personal wants or frivolous projects (think indoor sports facility)  -- they don't consider themselves above the law -- they have high moral and ethical standards -- they don't "move" their residence status just to run for election -- they don't drive drunk or commit other crimes --- they don't use their position to gain contracts for their personal business -- they don't mislead unwary taxpayers to vote for them -- they don't go to nursing homes with absentee ballots to get votes from people who don't know any better --- etc. etc.  Bottom line is that "qualified and honest" people usually don't run for a political office --- and, if they do, they usually lose the election because they don't play the game.  They are indeed honest.  


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#57 Big Bopper

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:14 AM

Alice, I'd be a fool to say the next mayor won't lie to us, but I sure hope the lies and games will be a lot less under our next mayor. Politicians often paint themselves into a corner and lie to save face. We need to elect the most qualified and most honest people we can find.

Let me make one thing clear, I don't speak for Julius. He will run his own campaign and speak for himself.

And yes, I was anti canal last election. Why? I believed a politician that said he had talked to engineers from Indy and found a way to resolve downtown flooding at a low cost. I believed in the candidate that said city hall employees would not have to walk on eggshells any longer or be fearful for their jobs. I believed in a candidate that said he would reduce wasteful spending of city tax dollars and reduce the number of take home vehicles. One that said he would listen to the citizens and operate from consensus of residents. A candidate that said he would not play politics and look after the best interest of the residents. I believed in a candidate that said we could trust him, one that would not change once elected. The candidate I backed and voted for never took office, instead we have another politician that loves to spend our tax dollars and doesn't know how to tell the truth.

I was blinded by lies. I can now see all the benefits of the canal from resolving downtown flooding to causing a downtown economic redevelopment beyond imagination. Galligan had a complete plan from retail to housing to parks that we could have been proud of. There was a team of investors from across the country ready to invest millions in Jeffersonville.

Instead, I supported the biggest loser Jeffersonville has ever elected. We ousted a mayor that had investors ready to make investments in Jeffersonville in the hundreds of million dollars and elected one that has hodgepodge developments in the past three years. He has wasted 2 years by being DUPED by an investor with insufficient funds.

Yes, I made a big mistake, it won't happen again!

 

:shifty:  It already has.



#58 Kruger87

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:17 AM

    "We need to elect the most qualified and most honest people we can find."    

 

    I agree with that statement Mike although it is a sad fact that "the most honest" and "the most qualified" want nothing to do with the shenanigans involved with politics.  Honest people don't play games -- they don't hire their relatives -- they don't refuse to resign when they are guilty of a felony -- they don't waste taxpayer dollars on personal wants or frivolous projects (think indoor sports facility)  -- they don't consider themselves above the law -- they have high moral and ethical standards -- they don't "move" their residence status just to run for election -- they don't drive drunk or commit other crimes --- they don't use their position to gain contracts for their personal business -- they don't mislead unwary taxpayers to vote for them -- they don't go to nursing homes with absentee ballots to get votes from people who don't know any better --- etc. etc.  Bottom line is that "qualified and honest" people usually don't run for a political office --- and, if they do, they usually lose the election because they don't play the game.  They are indeed honest.  

WOW!!! Very well said!!!! You hit the nail on the head and this pertains to just about every candidate out there! I think you forgot just one thing in that statement, they don't prey on you or your family in a time of need and promise to fix something and then when elected they just ignore the problem. The city did nothing in the last 3.5 years to rethink this sewer problem except raise the sewer cost. Well I should not say that they did nothing, the Mayor and I believe the council, I may be wrong here, decided to shut off the water to peoples homes if they fell behind on their sewer bill. This applied to just about everyone except Rob Waiz, the RD Director, who walked in with a $50-75 plumbing bill to erase a huge sewer bill. It was a good thing it was caught in time.



#59 grammy

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 10:01 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong . Wasn't the sewer rate increase done in a three year period started by TG and then council. I think we have TGs administration for the huge rate increase we now have.
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#60 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 10:07 AM

The sewer rate increase was done over a five year period. It started as a result off the consent decree. Our hands were tied.




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