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second wrongs


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#21 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 08:47 PM

That reminds me of Sean Hannity, "let me educate you".   It seems to me you are missing a point or two. But 

I guess I know from now on when you opine you do so from the perspective of that group of highly informed folks that really

believes Abraham Lincoln was one of our worst presidents. 

 

Carry on my friend. 


Edited by Pesty Version 2, 16 March 2015 - 08:48 PM.

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#22 James-R-McClure-Jr

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:27 AM

Peace, Pesty Version 2,

 

That reminds me of Sean Hannity, "let me educate you".

 

Thank you for the kind comparison.  If only I had Sean's money and fame to go with it.  :laugh:

 

 

It seems to me you are missing a point or two.

 

Please, feel free to elucidate on the points I am missing.  This is a discussion.  I'm all for the Socratic method.

 

 

But I guess I know from now on when you opine you do so from the perspective of that group of highly informed folks that really

believes Abraham Lincoln was one of our worst presidents. 

 

A good president doesn't violate the Constitution to save the Constitution.

 

 

Carry on my friend.

 

Thank you, I shall.  The Constitution and your God-given, inalienable Rights are under constant assault and I'll do My utmost to ensure that our posterity inherit a better united States than we inherited.



#23 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 06:56 AM

Peace, Pesty Version 2,

 

 

No, I wrote exactly what I meant, "Abraham Lincoln was one of the worst Presidents for his repeated violation of citizens' Rights."  Please, allow Me to educate you on the many unconstitutional acts by President Lincoln:

1. Lincoln ordered Northern newspapers who dared to speak out against him to be shut down, e.g.: The Journal of Commerce and The World.  The owners and editors were arrested for disloyalty and their property seized.  This is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment (Freedom of the Press).

2. Suspension of Habeas Corpus.  On April 27, 1861, President Lincoln, fearful that Southern troops might overtake the capital, suspended the writ of habeas corpus and declared martial law in Maryland. Shortly afterward, Union soldiers captured John Merryman, a cavalryman who had burned bridges and destroyed telegraph lines. Merryman challenged his military detention. On May 26, 1861, Chief Justice Roger Taney, sitting circuit, ruled that Lincoln had acted unconstitutionally — only Congress could suspend the Great Writ. Lincoln ignored the order and continued to seize and hold adversaries without a hearing. He did likewise in other states, such as Missouri.

3. Arrest and trial of private citizens for speaking out against the Lincoln administration, e.g.: former Ohio congressman, Clement L. Vallandigham.  Clement Vallandigham was a diehard Copperhead and a vigorous defender of State Sovereignty. Though personally opposed slavery, he felt the national government could not constitutionally compel the states to end what was called the “peculiar institution.” On May 1, 1863, Vallandigham gave a speech in which he labeled the Union war as “wicked, cruel, and unnecessary.” This conflict, waged by “King Lincoln,” was a “war for the purpose of crushing out liberty and erecting a despotism.” He then called for Lincoln’s removal from office.  Vallandigham was convicted by a military tribunal and was sentenced to “close confinement” until the end of the war. 

4. How about arresting a sitting member of Congress?  Henry May of Maryland was elected as a Unionist to the 37th Congress (4 Mar 1861 – 3 Mar 1863).  In September 1861 May was arrested without charges or recourse to habeas corpus on suspicion of treason.  May was eventually released, but no charges were ever brought or evidence produced.

5. Federal takeover of a whole city?  Lincoln ordered the arrest of Baltimore police chief George P. Kane, police commissioner Charles Howard, as well as fellow commissioners: William H. Gatchell, John W. Davis, and Charles D. Hinks. Baltimore Mayor George W. Brown was arrested and sent to Fort McHenry. The men were incarcerated because they dared to publicly disagree with Lincoln.  Baltimore was placed under federal control and a military police force was formed.

6. Making war without declaration of war by Congress.  Lincoln issued the Proclamation of Blockade of Southern Ports on 19 Apr 1861.  Naval blockade is an act of war.  Lincoln did not seek congressional approval for the blockade nor did he ever seek a declaration of war against the Confederate States.

 

This is a good post. Very informative.


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#24 kelley

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 07:04 AM

To be on topic, Abe's sins need to either absolve more recent ones, or someone needs to call for Abe to be prosecuted so someone can recite the bad behavior precedent (legal or conventional) that absolves him. Just saying.


Is it possible Abe was a seriously flawed president that violated the Constitution but still accomplished something great?

Surely there's a gray crayon in this box.

#25 James-R-McClure-Jr

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 04:31 PM

Peace, Kelley,

 

Surely there's a gray crayon in this box.

 

My crayons are all black or white.  :laugh:



#26 kelley

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 09:55 AM

Figured I'd bump this for the convenience of Trump supporters.

#27 kelley

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:59 AM

The topic of this thread has a name now "whataboutism."

"Dude X did this horrible thing."
"What about when Dude Z did that horrible thing?"




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