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OK...Ferguson...let's hash this out...


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#41 grammy

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:13 PM

Interesting but I would be asking why? Since African Americans are the majority in Ferguson why aren't they applying for police positions? Why aren't they running for office? Why aren't the children getting the education they deserve? Why is the crime rate so bad? I don't believe we have become a nation of killing people just for the way they are dressed or look. I believe people are in control of their own destiny and have to do it themselves through education and jobs and don't rely on the government for entitlements. My Dad worked two jobs for years so my sister and I could attend private school. I feel sorry for the store owners who have lost everything . I'm not sure If it was me I would rebuild there. I have noticed just in our area and not any certain race of young women walking around in the stores in pajamas. Where has self esteem and pride in appearance gone?I'm not a evil person . I realize sometimes people need a hand up. But it should never be an acceptable lifestyle. There needs to be strong family structures and parents need to be involved in their children's lives and know where and whom their with. We just can't turn them lose in the streets if we ever want to stop these crazy cycles. And I can personally speak as one who had , have and lost a lot of things only to come back stronger . Life is what you make it good or bad
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#42 Donna

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:18 PM

Unless, of course, you're stopped DEAD in your tracks.


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#43 kelley

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:19 PM

Ive seen 12 yrs old look older than 12 . I've got a son who everybody thinks is 16 but he's 27 makes him so mad lol. Dillion White ? Unarmed white man shot by black cop in Utah Aug 11. Where's the outrage?


Among those whose activism is focused on police issues generally, there is awareness, outrage and activity of white kids being shot also.



On this post and some others being made, place the blame for the headlines where it belongs: on the headline writers. Peaceful protests have been held about police misconduct of other forms, at other times and in other places. I'm sure the organizers would have loved more attention. For what ever reason, the media didn't feel those events were worthy enough. People have been talking about and writing about the militarization of police for some time. It wasn't until Ferguson that the experts in the area suddenly became in high demand.

Tamir Rice was shot within two seconds of the officer arriving following a call in which the caller said the gun was probably fake. Do we really need a bunch of dead white kids too before we get outraged?
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#44 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:21 PM

Interesting but I would be asking why? Since African Americans are the majority in Ferguson why aren't they applying for police positions? Why aren't they running for office? Why aren't the children getting the education they deserve? Why is the crime rate so bad? I don't believe we have become a nation of killing people just for the way they are dressed or look. I believe people are in control of their own destiny and have to do it themselves through education and jobs and don't rely on the government for entitlements.


How do you know black folks are not applying for police positions? And what does any of this have to do with "relying on the government for entitlements"?
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#45 kelley

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:25 PM

Jeff has had at least one black city council member, Ron Ellis. I've heard rumors about redrawing district maps as to why he wasn't elected again later.

Dustin White has ran for council unsuccessfully.

I knew a black guy who wanted to be a Jeff firefighter years ago, had issues and, at least quietly, threatened a lawsuit. We just recently went to a merit system which may help that, but there are still attempts to keep it a spoils system. One's buddies tend to look like them.

White privilege and systemic racism are pervasive things. Wealth, even if it's just household items, can't be handed down for as long when a few generations back, grandma and grandpa were considered someone else's wealth. The skilled trades and unions are great ways for people to make decent money without a college education. Ample research shows race has been a barrier to entry in those jobs, those unions. The military is often a way for someone to move up from nothing, but even in one of the most level arenas, we're only so far away from segregation and there are still race issues.

I've experienced racism vicariously, as well as been very aware of my privilege, while living here, in Jeff, but in what was considered a black neighborhood. Its hardly imaginary. You want to talk about headlines. I'm still a little bitter about an incident in which shots were fired at the Little League park. Huge deal that the largely white kids with the means to participate in team sports were exposed to violence. That the shooting continued over the heads of toddlers in the nearby projects wasn't such a big deal, and when guys were running around on other occasions shooting at each other on the projects playground right after school when it was packed with kids wasn't ever news at all. And the media are the big systemic stuff. Look at our neighbors. We all likely know real admitted racists in this community and a whole lot more that wouldn't admit to being a racist but certainly use the language of one. All in this conversation certainly know at least one of those, lol.

I'm not at all surprised more local black people aren't in leadership roles.

Oh,and on local matters: where is the sewer treatment plant? Where are most of the public housing projects? Where is the homeless shelter? Where did the city council want a day shelter to be located? Where was the Community Kitchen given the zoning to operate?

It's real.

Edited by kelley, 01 December 2014 - 10:51 PM.

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#46 grammy

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:29 PM

How do you know they are? How many where denied after applying.? And usually poverty goes hand in hand with govt entitlements . Yes there should be safety nets in place but only temporary till the individual gets back on there feet not to pass down to generations of any race.

Edited by grammy, 01 December 2014 - 10:43 PM.


#47 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:50 PM

Lonely, bored KID at a mostly deserted park and two cops cannot handle that?

As a responsible parent, not every lesson was learned. Doesn't mean that my children should die. It does mean that police officers should be able to gauge the situation before exiting the squad car without itchy trigger fingers. TWELVE YEARS OLD!

Hmmm.......let me see. Police were responding to a 911 call (not just a "call in" but a 911 EMERGENCY call) that stated "someone was pointing a gun at people." Police show up, and unfortunately the kid decides to "reach for a weapon that was tucked in his waistband." At this point it becomes "survival of the fittest," and REGARDLESS of age, if a kid (or man for that matter) reaches towards a weapon that can visibly be seen in his waistband (keep in mind they were responding to a 911 call stating that "someone was pointing a gun at people in the park), if you can HONESTLY SAY you're going to say "hmmm......I need to get a little closer look-see.....I don't think that's a real gun," then proceed not to react to the situation while this gun is being pulled, at which point it's you or them" then I suggest you IMMEDIATELY go to the JPD, because I'm sure they'd hire you on the spot, considering your such a "calm, cool, and collected" specimen in that situation. And PUH-LEASE don't give me the "but they're trained for these type of situations." Right......once again it's D A M N easy to arm-charm quarterback it......after all, it wasn't YOU who had the potential to lose your life in the situation, had "your guess" (real gun or not) turned out to be wrong. It was an unfortunate situation, and unfortunately this young man chose to make the wrong move. In the situation, I don't think ANY of us could say we wouldn't react any differently that the LEO's did. Well.......you can SAY you would, as you sit all "safe and comfy" in your home......but sorry, I call BS on that!! I'm a trained firearms carrier, and I cannot honestly say how I would react......and probably if I did, I'd have to say it would probably be in the same manner as the LEO's did.

Just how I see it.......an unfortunate incident. Of course, I know we'll never come to an agreement on this. But there IS another side to the story, and the LEO's are NOT all bad guys!!

Rod Daily

Edited by JHS1982, 01 December 2014 - 11:28 PM.

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#48 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:56 PM

Should there be outrage?


Nope.......from the reports I've read, the "perp" did not comply to the LEO's demands (after responding to an emergency call that reported a disturbance involving a man with a gun, although he was later found to be unarmed), the "perp" made a sudden move towards his waistband (as if grabbing for a weapon), and the LEO did what he had to do (survival of the fittest / it's him or me). Point being, if you comply with what LEO's ask you to do, nobody gets shot!!

This was a legitimate shooting by the officer, regardless of the ethnicity of the LEO OR the "perp." Been saying that all along (that race / color has NO bearing on these cases, yet people want to make it out to be that......about race).

Rod Daily
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#49 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:00 PM

If there were as many black cops shooting/killing white citizens as there has been vice-versa recently you'd better believe there would be outrage....outrage and lynchings and firings and lynchings and maximum jail time and lynching etc, etc, etc.


Once again, WHY does color have ANYTHING to do with these cases????? If the "victims" comply to the demands of the officers, NO ONE GETS SHOT (whether it's a black LEO responding to a white perp, an Asian LEO responding to a Hispanic, a Hispanic LEO responding to a black perp, etc., etc......color has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!). DO WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND YOU'LL LIVE ANOTHER DAY, SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!

Rod Daily
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#50 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:07 PM

There is outrage in my heart for any family that suffers a needless loss. 
 
I don't want my children shot dead because they look a certain way, dress a certain way, spoke a certain way, drank canned tea or ate Skittles, weren't respectful enough, or BIG & SCARY!   Or just being lonely and bored at a park.


Yet it happens EVERY DAY........"children" being shot dead because they look / dress a certain way (just ask some hardened gang members), spoke a certain way (say something "cross" to the wrong person and see what happens), etc., etc. BUT IT AIN'T LEO'S THAT ARE DOING THE MAJORITY OF THE KILLIN'.........yet that seems to be the point you're trying to make!!

Been pulled over MANY TIMES, asked if they could search my car (yeah....pizzed me off, but I was respectful and complied), etc., but I've YET to be "shot" by ANY LEO. Wonder why?? Hmmmmm...........

Rod Daily

#51 grammy

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:11 PM

That is exactly what I've been trying to get across if you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to fear. And both cases are similar but you don't see the hatred and violence as you do in the Ferguson case.
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#52 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:14 PM

Stop trying to make this out to be a singular incidence.  There is overwhelming stats that it ain't safe to be black in this "post-racist" America.  There is a cumulative record of violence by police against people of color.  He was EIGHTEEN (?) but "BIG & SCARY" and stole some cigars! 
 
And, then, there is Tamir Rice.  Can you reconcile that with all of your facts?


WOW.......so even though there's PROOF (both eye-witness AND forensic!!) that Michael Brown was the aggressor, you STILL want to blow this off as "he was eighteen, but BIG AND SCARY"????

Wow.......just.........WOW!!! I'm tellin' 'ya Donna, we need YOU on the JPD and in charge of training, etc., etc. Better yet, we need you out there on the street, 'cause you DEFINITELY got all the answers!!!

(I'm being facetious, and YOU KNOW I LOVE 'YA, but we'll definitely have to agree to disagree on this matter.......that's okay too......it's what makes the world go around!!)

Rod Daily
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#53 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:17 PM

I've been looking really hard all over this thread and I just can't seem to find anybody saying anywhere that it is.


And although I disagree with other's opinion on this matter, I agree 100% with this statement!! SPOT ON, PNG!!

Rod

#54 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:22 PM

Unless, of course, you're stopped DEAD in your tracks.


Maybe that should be, "Unless, of course, you decide not to comply with a LEO's commands, remain defiant, threaten and / or beat said LEO, reach or react quickly to an object in your waistband, only to escalate the situation, THEN you're stopped DEAD in your tracks."

T I T-for-tat!!

Rod
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#55 JHS1982

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 11:42 PM

My WHOLE point for the continuous replies (sorry......I got on a roll) is: WHAT DOES RACE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THESE SHOOTINGS? Given the evidence and the circumstances, they were ALL justified, yet I think "some" want to "target" the LEO's as the ONLY reason why they shot their perps was because of race. That's simply not the case, and I would venture to say (just a SWAG - Scientific Wild donkey Guess) that 99.99% of LEO shootings ARE NOT "race based." They (the LEO's) responded to the situation they were placed in, and in a "survival of the fittest / it's you or me" situation, they are going to make sure THEY go home to their family tonight.........can you honestly say YOU wouldn't if put in the same situation?? I CANNOT honestly say that........has nothing to do with the color of your skin.......if it's you or me and you put me in that situation, I don't care if you're TRANSLUCENT, I'M GOING HOME TO MY FAMILY TO LIVE ANOTHER DAY. Do what I say, and we'll BOTH live!!! Simple as that!!

Now, that being said, ANYTIME there is an "unjustified" shooting (where the evidence does not support shooting the perp, and YES, they do happen........not often (in my opinion), but DO happen), the LEO should be held criminally accountable. But in my opinion, there has to be OVERWHELMING evidence that the shooting was not justified.......I realize sometimes that evidence does not exists (thus why I think "body cameras" may be(?) a good idea), but I think the HUGELY VAST MAJORITY of LEO's are good people, good at what they do, and ONLY shoot if / when their lives are in danger, and it don't matter what race is at the end of that barrel. But when it happens (unjustified shootings.......and BOY is that subjective!!) the ENTIRE COMMUNITY should be outraged, and the "race baiting" should be silenced.

Sorry for all the posts. Just the way I see this whole situation!!

Rod Daily

Edited by JHS1982, 02 December 2014 - 12:05 AM.

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#56 grammy

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:02 AM

I've been a victim of a violent crime. I was in my early 20s . The perp was never caught . And let me say thank God for the LMPD within less than 5 minutes they was there for me. And they were the kindest caring officers. They would randomly come and check on me and for months gave my apt building extra patrol on their shifts for my peace of mind. Because when you do encounter a Big and Scary they aren't there to reason with you . So when a THUG white black or purple gets taken out by a member of the community or a police officer I have little sympathy. And at the end of the day the police officer deserves to go home safe as well.

#57 woo

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:59 AM

  He was EIGHTEEN (?) but "BIG & SCARY" and stole some cigars! 

And he attacked the officer, don't forget that part.....


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#58 Persona Non Grata

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:39 AM

Once again, WHY does color have ANYTHING to do with these cases????? If the "victims" comply to the demands of the officers, NO ONE GETS SHOT (whether it's a black LEO responding to a white perp, an Asian LEO responding to a Hispanic, a Hispanic LEO responding to a black perp, etc., etc......color has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!). DO WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND YOU'LL LIVE ANOTHER DAY, SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!

Rod Daily

 


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#59 Donna

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 09:08 AM

Hard video to watch, but thanks PNG, it needs to be seen.  And, I love your tag line!

 

I've failed miserably in supporting the narrative of this thread.  No one wants to "hash this out."  We are supposed to agree or dang the lot of us, we're "arm chair quarterbacking."  (Not sure what the other posters think they're doing . . . ????)  

 

Cops gone bad or rogue cops beating on suspects after they have been subdued.  No, no, nothing to see here!  Just move along, folk, just move along.


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#60 Donna

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 09:12 AM

If only these "perps" followed the LEO's instructions . . . because "resistance is futile." 


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