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Clark Memorial/Norton Healthcare

Clark Memorial Norton hospital

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#1 MyMan

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:13 AM

As a current employee, I try to follow this topic closely. 

 

There are lots of rumors and hearsay, but overall the acquisition of CMH by Norton Healthcare is a no-brainer.

 

Is there a reason why the county officials choose not to make the public aware of their stance?  It seems like this merger is taking forever, and I'm not sure if most Clark County citizens realize how important this is for the county hospitals future?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

 



#2 apirateatheart

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:59 AM

I am not familiar with how this would affect the hospital....will it be a good thing or a bad thing?



#3 MyMan

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:17 AM

It would be a good thing for the hospital and all those that use it.


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#4 Poppie

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:21 PM

I agree that there hasn't been enough discussed about this issue.

#5 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:32 PM

As long as Norton assumes all the debt!!!



#6 apirateatheart

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:52 PM

Why would it be a good thing for the hospital and all who use it?

 

Is there someone against it?   If so, who?

 

How much debt?   Was it construction or operating debt?   Are the county taxpayers at all responsible for the debt currently?



#7 grayarea

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:58 PM

All I know is that I can now go to my county hospital without paying out of network charges...so, good thing.



#8 Not Super But Honest Mike

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 05:20 PM

The county gave its blessing to a 50 million dollar bond a few years ago. Norton said it would make the bond payments but would not refinance the bond. So.....the taxpayers of Clark County are on the hook for this bond.

 

Another article that was in Business First put the hospital's total debt at 115 million that is due in the next 5 years. Some of that is debt owed to the hospital's pension plan. I'd like to know what is owed to the plan and why it is not paid and up to date.

 

Do a Google search for "Clark Memorial Hospital Bond" and you will find several articles to read.



#9 Citizen5

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 06:49 PM

The real question is do the citizens of Clark County still need to own a hospital?  

 

If so, then own the hospital and operate it appropriately by providing needed services at a fair and profitable market rate.  Yes that includes profitable services the hospital currently does not provide.  The county would also need to drop the secrecy in which it tries to operate a county asset.  It seems the county officials do not like to give details out about a huge asset which is owned by the citizens of the county.  

 

I often see threads on here about county employee salaries, it makes me laugh.  The people making the most money in this county from county assets work at, or operate, our 2 biggest assets, the hospital and the county dump.  

 

If the citizens no longer need a county owned hospital then sell it to the highest bidder and get out of the business.

 

Bringing Nortons on board to operate the hospital will in the long run end no better than having Jewish operate it or how Nortons operated Floyd Memorial hospital.  Both Jewish and Nortons took what they could and then needed to be booted.

 

What the opening poster calls a "no-brainer" is, in my opinion, a no brained comment based on the available information, which is very minimal, way to minimal to make such a conclusion.

 

So, does the county heed to own a hospital or is it time to allow the private sector to assume this?  Has the time passed in our county for the need for a county owned hospital?   If the time has passed let it be passed, liquidate the hospital and property to the highest bidder and get out.  If it hasn't passed then hire the right people and operate the hospital so it stays in the black with an appropriate business plan.


Edited by Citizen5, 03 November 2014 - 06:57 PM.


#10 MyMan

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:19 PM

Norton's has never had operating control over FMH.  CMH had an affiliation with Jewish, but but was never an operation where Jewish invested much money into CMH.  CMH has always been a county owned hospital. This would be more than an affiliation.  Norton could inject business and equipment into CMH that it may struggle to gain on its own. 

 

I wish you would elaborate on your comments regarding salaries.  What would expect the hospital to pay nurses, radiology technicians, physicians?  What about these salaries are laughable.  Clark has to compete with the market to hire and keep healthcare professionals, or else guess what?  There is no hospital.  Are you speaking about administration? 

 

If you think CMH overpays its employees, well you're flat wrong.  Please do some homework and look at what's happening to small county hospitals around this nation...  It's no myth.... they are struggling.

 

How do you suppose the costs decrease, when equipment cost increase and reimbursements decrease? 

 

I'm just curious if you could link where Norton's took over Floyd and then needed to be booted.  I'd really like to read up and understand this relationship.  It sounds very bad!!!  Post soon...thanks.


Edited by MyMan, 03 November 2014 - 08:39 PM.


#11 MyMan

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:35 PM

The county gave its blessing to a 50 million dollar bond a few years ago. Norton said it would make the bond payments but would not refinance the bond. So.....the taxpayers of Clark County are on the hook for this bond.

 

Another article that was in Business First put the hospital's total debt at 115 million that is due in the next 5 years. Some of that is debt owed to the hospital's pension plan. I'd like to know what is owed to the plan and why it is not paid and up to date.

 

Do a Google search for "Clark Memorial Hospital Bond" and you will find several articles to read.

As I understand, which I could be wrong...Norton has agreed to pay the bond but refinance under its name.  So essentially Norton Healthcare would need to go under for the county to ever be on the hook for this. 

 

What if Clark goes under?  Who will be on the hook for the bond?  The county.  Who is experiencing more hardship?  Norton or CMH?

 

You may know more about it, but that's how I see it. 



#12 Citizen5

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:23 PM

You obviously don't know much about what you're talking about.  Norton's has never had operating control over FMH.  CMH had an affiliation with Jewish, but but was never an operation where Jewish invested much money into CMH.  CMH has always been a county owned hospital. 

 

I wish you would elaborate on your comments regarding salaries.  What would expect the hospital to pay nurses, radiology technicians, physicians?  What about these salaries are laughable.  Clark has to compete with the market to hire and keep healthcare professionals, or else guess what?  There is no hospital.  If you think CMH overpays, well you're flat wrong.  Please do some homework and look at what's happening to small county hospitals around this nation...  It's no myth....

 

I'm not sure you understand the state of healthcare in regards to reimbursement, etc....  Why don't you read up on this.  You expect CMH to drop it's costs, but continue to receive less and less reimbursement?  That sounds like a sound business model. 

 

I'm just curious if you could link where Norton's took over Floyd and then needed to be booted.  I'd really like to read up and understand this relationship.  It sounds very bad!!!  Post soon...thanks.

 

 

 

 

You seem to have read into my post much that was not written and twisted some of what was.  

 

As for homework, lets see.  I worked at CMH when Jewish was "affiliated".  I sit in on meetings, heard the BS, seen much stripped and pompous BS added.  I understand being there and living it doesn't make me as much of an expert as reading your post would, but hey, it does make me less than a novice on the subject.  But you got one part right, Jewish never invested much, the citizens of Clark County did, but Jewish didn't.  Jewish did take what they could and ran.  Thank you county officials!!!

 

Let's see if I can address some of what you did not understand and chose to take out of context.

 

Salaries:  I've worked at several small county hospitals, some of them much smaller the CMH.   I work in and derive my salary from healthcare in the current market conditions.  I am well aware of what the market is.  

 

I  never said people shouldn't be paid a competitive wage.  What I did say, and you ignored,  is that the hospital is a county owned asset cloak in secrecy and that there were people there making high salaries.  Yes, it takes high salaries to attract and keep people in those positions, but they do not have to be kept secret from the people who own the hospital, the citizens of the county.  Further more, some of those people simply need replaced, they have financially ran the hospital into the ground.  

 

You do understand the people of Clark County own the hospital and are kept like mushrooms, in the dark, concerning it's finances.  That is what I find laughable, but you choose to read into that what you will, you obviously did and missed my point.

 

While in my previous post I did not say people were over paid at CMH, I will now say that some people are.  The position isn't over paid, but the person they have in it sure is.

 

Reimbursements:   While not my primary job, I am involved in and keep up with the numbers.  Could I learn more if I "read up" on it, probably, but then so could anyone else, even those that it is their primary job.  So while i could not doubt know more, again, I'm not a novice on the subject and have a pretty good general knowledge of the matter.

 

Costs:  I never said anything about CMH dropping it's cost.  I did say something about providing needed services at fair market prices.  The focus being on providing needed services.  CMH fails to provide some services needed in Clark County, some of them very profitable. 

 

 I wonder if you understand how much more a none insured patient is charged than an insured patient for the exact same procedure by the exact same people using the exact same equipment.   That could be a whole other thread as it would take a small novel to explain everything behind this.  Of course that is more the national healthcare systems fault than any single provider like CMH.  I've always wondered why a non-insured resident of the county is charges so much more than an insured resident is, or an insured non-resident for that matter.  I mean jeez, it is a county owned hospital built so the people of Clark County could have access to healthcare.

 

Nortons and FMH:  You say Nortons never had operational control.  Okay, maybe your right.  But if you are so sure than you must know what the association was between Nortons and FMH and why it was terminated.  Maybe you could share that information with us.

 

Now, of your 9 post 4 of them are in this thread, that you started.  So is pushing for the Nortons take over of CMH your primary reason for joining the site? 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Citizen5, 03 November 2014 - 09:26 PM.

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#13 Citizen5

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:01 PM

As a current employee, I try to follow this topic closely. 

 

There are lots of rumors and hearsay, but overall the acquisition of CMH by Norton Healthcare is a no-brainer.

 

Is there a reason why the county officials choose not to make the public aware of their stance?  It seems like this merger is taking forever, and I'm not sure if most Clark County citizens realize how important this is for the county hospitals future?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

Let's back up a minute and directly address your opening post.

 

You are correct in your assumption.  Most Clark County Citizens do not know how important the merger is to the hospitals future.  We have no idea of the importance level simply because we have no relevant information.   Further more the reason our county officials have not made the public aware of their stance is because they also do not have the relevant, detailed information required to take a stance.

 

You declare: " but overall the acquisition of CMH by Norton Healthcare is a no-brainer."

 

Now for you to make such a statement one of two scenarios exist.  1) You know very little, like the rest of us,  and are following someones lead which mean you most certainly are someones man but not MyMan. 2) You do know and are in possession of  the details required to make such a statement.

 

Let me operate on the second scenario, you are in possession of the details and know what you are stating to be true in so far as you can truthfully discern and are in possession of enough details to accurately come to this conclusion .  Great!!!!!!  You did say your work there now, so you must be in a position to and have access to the required information.  You are THE MAN.  You can share that information with our county officials, prove your point, and if they agree with you they can state their stance and this can get moving along.

 

So MyMan, can you deliver?  Can you get the information to our county officials?  The information they have, thus far, been denied and unable to obtain?

 

Perhaps you can also tell us why CMH has pushed so many local doctors out the door.  I know it is part of a business plan, can you share that plan with us?  Tell us why we can't be admitted to the hospital under our own doctor, the doctor we've used for many years?  I mean it is a county hospital, owned by us, the citizens of the county.  Why have our doctors been pushed out?  Doctors with practices in Clark County with thousands of patients?   What a business plan, alienate local doctors with thousands of patients from a county owned hospital, can you tell me how that helps the hospital and the citizens of the county? 


Edited by Citizen5, 03 November 2014 - 11:01 PM.


#14 MyMan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:24 PM

Wow where to start? I debunk your cmh/Jewish misconceptions, and your Floyd/Norton lies. Now you assert that Clark memorial is running physicians out of the county? Or refusing care. Please give me one example of what you're talking about. Cite your sources.

Let me set the record straight. I'm behind the merger, which I refer to as a no-brained, because it's the only option to breath renewed life back into CMH. If this doesn't happen I fear the worst in the next 4-5 years. Is CMH perfect? Nah. But the should the 1800 employees be put on the street? Should the citizens have to drive to Louisville or Floyd county for healthcare? Nah.

The hospital is being as transparent as possible imo. The CEO recently held a public forum where he answered questions for one hour. Did you go? It was in the papers weeks before hand. I'm sure there are details missing, but who knows if the lawyers are guarding that.

You don't think the county officials are completely in dark do you?

Edited by MyMan, 04 November 2014 - 03:28 PM.


#15 GrumpyGranny

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:18 PM

MyMan, I'm assuming Citizen5 did not mean the hospital is running physicians out of the county. What he/she said was "Tell us why we can't be admitted to the hospital under our own doctor, the doctor we've used for many years?" That is a question I would like to have answered, too. Why have a doctor who is not familiar with our health problems admit us, then have to be the one to discharge us? The last time I was in there, I was treated (or had tests performed) by three specialists, two of which have been my doctors for years. The day I was discharged, all three of the specialists released me by 1:00 pm, but the doc who admitted me did not want to release me; he did everything he could to try to keep me another night. He wanted me to eat, so I ate pretty awful hospital food when I was only one discharge and five minutes from my own pantry and refrigerator. He wanted to take me off of one of my meds...a med I've been on for years, prescribed by my cardiologist, and need to keep taking. When I refused to go off the med, he had the nurse call two of the three specialists to ask if they were ok with me staying on the med, they both said yes. Note that the fool did not have the staff call my cardiologist for his opinion.

 

So after his hoops had been jumped through, the staff called him to tell him all was good...and the creep would not answer his pages or calls. Finally about 7 pm he did answer the staff and started filling out the discharge papers... He took an hour to do what most physicians do in a few minutes so I finally got out of there at 8 pm. Do I dislike that doc much? Darn right I do, and I will never agree to be treated by him again. Do I dislike this new system of "house doctors" or whatever they're  called. Darn right I do. I trust my doctors, not some strange doc who doesn't know anything about me.  


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#16 Citizen5

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 07:09 PM

Wow where to start? I debunk your cmh/Jewish misconceptions, and your Floyd/Norton lies. Now you assert that Clark memorial is running physicians out of the county? Or refusing care. Please give me one example of what you're talking about. Cite your sources.

Let me set the record straight. I'm behind the merger, which I refer to as a no-brained, because it's the only option to breath renewed life back into CMH. If this doesn't happen I fear the worst in the next 4-5 years. Is CMH perfect? Nah. But the should the 1800 employees be put on the street? Should the citizens have to drive to Louisville or Floyd county for healthcare? Nah.

The hospital is being as transparent as possible imo. The CEO recently held a public forum where he answered questions for one hour. Did you go? It was in the papers weeks before hand. I'm sure there are details missing, but who knows if the lawyers are guarding that.

You don't think the county officials are completely in dark do you?

Well I see what I am dealing with now.  You've debunked nothing, you've not replied to anything with any relevant information.   You've twisted what was posted without actually addressing it.  

In replying to my posts you have written:

"CMH has always been a county owned hospital." (Show me where I have ever said otherwise, in fact I corrected many employees in this subject while Jewish was in control.  Some employees actually thought Jewish had bought the hospital)

Norton's has never had operating control over FMH (Since you seemed so sure of this I deferred to you and asked "Okay, maybe your right.  But if you are so sure than you must know what the association was between Nortons and FMH and why it was terminated.  Maybe you could share that information with us."  Care to do that now?  They did have an association and it was terminated, clarify the details for us. )

 Now you assert that Clark memorial is running physicians out of the county? Or refusing care. (Show me where I said either of these things.  I did say they were pushing doctors out of the hospital, and they are.  I work with a few that have been pushed out.)

 You expect CMH to drop it's costs,  (Again, show me where I said this.)

 Should the citizens have to drive to Louisville or Floyd county for healthcare? (Sometime back The CEO of CMH said exactly that in a county council meeting I attended  when asked why CMH didn't provide certain very profitable services) 

You don't think the county officials are completely in dark do you? (The word completely  is to strong, but I don't think the county officials are in the dark as to the pertinent details needed to make the best decisions, I know they are.  They have been kept in the dark by the hospital board, the hospital administration, Nortons administration and the lawyers representing them.)

The CEO recently held a public forum where he answered questions for one hour. Did you go? (No I didn't, but then he wouldn't have answered the questions I would have asked.)

 

 Keep in mind I did not dispute your opinion that merger is needed or the best option,  I didn't agree with it either.   I just asked for the details to support your opinion.   It's all in the details and it seems you have no more details than the rest of us.

 

I also raised this.  The big question for me is does the county need to own a hospital.  If so then the county needs to run the hospital appropriately, drop the secret BS and put everything out under the light.  If not then the county needs to find the best deal possible and sell, it it's Nortons so be it.   



#17 RStephenson

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:11 PM

I am sorry but I have only been able to glance at this thread today. I have been kinda busy with the election. There are some very interesting concerns that have been brought up. I tell you what, I will review all the posts on this thread tomorrow and will answer as many questions as I can. Feel free to ask any questions that might not have been asked in the earlier posts.
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#18 MyMan

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 08:12 AM

Respectfully, I have some questions. I appreciate that you take time to get involved.

1.) When can the county and the employees expect a vote on the merger? It was postponed last fall so the county could gather more information. Has this been completed?

2.) What are the biggest concerns the county still has? The last article i read pointed at healthcare for inmates and refinancing the bond.

I may think of more as the day goes on.

Keep in mind, we know where the hospital and the hospital board sits in regards to their opinion on the outcome. Nobody knows what the county is thinking, it would be nice if these officials where more transparent. Be it for the merger or opposed and why.

#19 Tina

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:07 AM

I am usually skeptical about private-public partnerships.  Usually (not always) they end up benefiting the private entity more than the public. Is there a better set up for a company than having a customer that gets to spend someone else's money?



#20 MyMan

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 10:31 AM

Well, would this be a partnership?  The way I see it, Norton would assume all responsibilities and CMH would be absorbed into Norton Healthcare.  The hospital would cease to be a County Hospital at that point.  All money from then on Norton would be responsible for all costs.

 

So what's stopping this deal? 

 

Does the county expect to be paid for the assets?  Does Norton not want to pay for assets?

 

Does they county want Norton to refinance the bond?  Norton has agreed to pay the bond.

 

Does the county expect the hospital to continue to offer free healthcare to prisoners?  Is this the norm with other county hospitals and jails?  Norton's has agreed to pay for prisoner healthcare for the next 5 years but after that the county is on the hook.  Why wasn't the county on the hook all along? 

 

Believe me, I want to understand the negatives and positives.  I want to understand where all sides sit. 






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