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The ACA (Obamacare) -- What A Treat!

ACA Affordable Care Act Obamacare Health Healthcare Cost

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#41 snowman

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

"A single parent with three kids and an annual income of $25,000, for instance, could get an $8,800 insurance plan for a total out-of-pocket cost of $500 per year. Subsidies, in other words, cover 94% of the cost. Try to beat that on part-time pay."


Am I the only one outraged that a thusly described single parent would be forced to hand over so much as one dollar to a corporation?

Forced consumption. Absolutely disgusting.


Forced consumption? People consume healthcare no matter what. We all pay for it no matter what. I don't see that as forced consumption. It's paying for what you're going to benefit from, and would pay for anyway in some way or another.
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#42 snowman

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:31 PM

And who pays for the subsidies ??? Go look in a mirror. So now not only do you get to pay for your insurance but you get to pay for other people as well.


Yes, I realize... I pay for my house to be insured every year... and it is insured. That means that if I have a loss of it, it will be paid for. That's how insurance works... Subsidies are paid for with taxes that we all pay for. We pay taxes to run the institutions that we all need at some time or another.
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#43 snowman

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:33 PM

Yes, I realize... I pay for my house to be insured every year... and it is insured. That means that if I have a loss of it, it will be paid for. That's how insurance works... Subsidies are paid for with taxes that we all pay for. We pay taxes to run the institutions that we all need at some time or another.



Back to football...
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#44 rosietheriveter

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

http://o.dailycaller.com/thedailycaller/#!/entry/republican-accuses-fellow-lawmakers-of-lying-about-obamacare-exemption,523b31e1da27f5d9d022db20


#45 umc

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

According to the Kaiser calculator, my wife and I (33 and 36 years old) will have to pay over $500/month for the worst plan. &#*! that. We don't go to the doc for anything. Unless something catastrophic happens, we probably won't. I'm sure that the deductible makes it even more ridiculous. I really hope that calculator is wrong. There may be a possibility that catastrophic plans may be available to us. That's all we need. Not looking forward to this at all.

Edited by umc, 23 September 2013 - 09:37 PM.

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#46 snowman

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:02 AM

According to the Kaiser calculator, my wife and I (33 and 36 years old) will have to pay over $500/month for the worst plan. &#*! that. We don't go to the doc for anything. Unless something catastrophic happens, we probably won't. I'm sure that the deductible makes it even more ridiculous. I really hope that calculator is wrong. There may be a possibility that catastrophic plans may be available to us. That's all we need. Not looking forward to this at all.


is there a link for the calculator?

#47 umc

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:31 AM

The link is in your post on the previous page. See the link for the "helpful calculator". Can't link from my phone.

#48 kelley

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

People do not all consume health care throughout all their lives. It is forced. Whether you can afford it, whether you want or need it, you have to pay it.

Insurance historically was for catastrophic events, not every sniffle and wasteful supposedly preventative measures. The single parent described, the family described cannot afford to support doctors and insurance companies.

It's obscene.

Edited by kelley, 24 September 2013 - 06:39 AM.

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#49 Tina

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:07 AM

http://www.foxnews.c...sReporter=false

Humana

Andy and Amy Mangione of Louisville, Ky. and their two boys are just the kind of people who should be helped by ObamaCare. But they recently got a nasty surprise in the mail.

"When I saw the letter when I came home from work," Andy said, describing the large red wording on the envelope from his insurance carrier, "(it said) 'your action required,benefit changes, act now.' Of course I opened it immediately."

It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

The insurance carrier made it clear the increase was in order to be compliant with the new health care law.

"This isn't a Cadillac plan, this isn't even a silver plan," Mangione said, referring to higher levels of coverage under ObamaCare.

"This is a high deductible plan where I'm assuming a lot of risk for my health insurance for my family. And nothing has changed, our boys are healthy-- they're young --my wife is healthy. I'm healthy, nothing in our medical history has changed to warrant a tripling of our premiums.

"Well I'm the one that does the budget,” said his wife. "Eventually I've got that coming down the pike that I gotta figure out what we're gonna cut what we're gonna do, to afford a $1,000 a month premium."


Robert Zirkelbach, spokesman for American Health Insurance Plans, which represents insurers,explained that "for people who currently choose to purchase a high deductible, low premium policy that's more affordable for them, they are now being required to add all these new benefits to their policy.

That," he says, "is also going to add to the cost of their health insurance premiums."


Edited by Tina, 24 September 2013 - 07:09 AM.

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#50 umc

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:13 AM

Sure, that family is about to pay out the nose. But let's talk about the millions of people that are going to pay less than $100 as I saw in another headline. No need to discuss the people that worked hard to get to a better financial place who now get to pay a boatload for coverage they neither need nor want.
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#51 Tina

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:23 AM

It needs to be done like car insurance. We don't pay for every oil change or tire rotation with our insurance card. It should be the same for health insurance.

Will some people not go get tests and physicals? Yep. Can't fix stupid. Even now, those on Medicare and Medicaid don't go for every test, right? So how does the taxpayer picking up more of the bill improve things? Lets say more people DO go and get those tests... Well the basic law of "supply and demand" says as demand goes up, so does the cost! Up goes the taxes! Hey, it's other people's money, so what do we care?

And here's the disconnect for America vs England, etc.

You see, when we beat our chests and demand to be the world's police...well the rest of those countries can spend less on their military and more on healthcare. After all, they know big brother (USA) will have their backs.

And there are some on this thread who demand both! (Strong worlds police and social programs). They must believe money grows on trees.

Edited by Tina, 24 September 2013 - 07:25 AM.

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#52 snowman

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:48 AM

The reason we have the ACA is because the system was not working, not everyone was covered, people were filing bankruptcy for getting sick, and health care costs were rising triple the cost of inflation...

Insurance is not some foreign thing... it is insurance. Hopefully our house never burns down. But if it does we will have it rebuilt because of insurance. Now, some folks might be lucky enough to have gobs of money saved and would be able to rebuild it themselves, without insurance. I doubt anyone does that... goes without homeowners insurance that is.

Insurance requires that many people in the plan will never have castatrophic losses so as to pay for the losses that do occur.

#53 snowman

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:35 AM

Here's a real life example of a friend of mine... he had a bicycle accident, hitting a pothole going downhill in one of the Louisville parks... broke 3 vertebra in his neck. his hospital bill was over $117,000. He was in between jobs and thought he had insurance, from the first job, but he had no insurance. This was 3 years ago. He's still paying it off, and he will be for years to come.
He has a good income so he will be able to afford to pay that off over time. He will be driving an old car and forgoing fixing up his older home, but he will be able to make it.

He would rather have had insurance I can tell you that. People will still be able to choose not to have insurance coverage and pay the fines associated with ACA. The chance one takes...
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#54 umc

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:50 AM

I have insurance (catastrophic) for my wife and I at $160/mo. Now I have to pay $500/mo or more, and from what I've heard my deductible will likely go up. The system was working for me fine, and I'm sure many others. It wasn't broken for everyone, and those that it was broken for had other broken aspects of life like your friend with no job. Now my life has to bear that break to some degree. Why should I have to pay more? I did nothing wrong.

The government isn't just mandating coverage. They're subsidizing it for some. They're dictating coverage. The free market had plenty of options. Someone will always be hurt under any system. Now I guess it gets to be me, and others like the family in the article. Effing great!
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#55 kelley

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:11 AM

You don't expect your home owner's policy to address preventative maintenance, minor repairs or the guy down the street's house.

Before ACA, 85% of people in the U.S. had health insurance. If you subtract illegal immigrants, that percentage was higher. Most people with insurance liked what they had. Now virtually everyone is screwed.

People barely getting by will now, even with subsidies, be poorer. Those in the middle class, people who have made smart financial choices will be squeezed to pay for others. Those with bank will barely notice the change unless they make their money from health care. In that case, they'll have more money.

Just read yesterday about how much larger the gap between the rich and poor has gotten during the last few years - the Obama years. If you can't see the very obvious correlation between more government and spending and more redistribution of wealth to the wealthy, you're blind.

Nancy Pelosi and her fellow powerful millionaires are not in it to help us.

Edited by kelley, 24 September 2013 - 09:13 AM.

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#56 umc

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

Raising the stress levels of those trying to pay for all of this and making us have to work more to pay for it is going to be great for one's health. I just scaled back our schedule some because we've been running ourselves absolutely ragged. Now I can add that work back in to pay for this if the price structure holds true.

#57 snowman

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

You don't expect your home owner's policy to address preventative maintenance, minor repairs or the guy down the street's house.

Before ACA, 85% of people in the U.S. had health insurance. If you subtract illegal immigrants, that percentage was higher. Most people with insurance liked what they had. Now virtually everyone is screwed.

People barely getting by will now, even with subsidies, be poorer. Those in the middle class, people who have made smart financial choices will be squeezed to pay for others. Those with bank will barely notice the change unless they make their money from health care. In that case, they'll have more money.

Just read yesterday about how much larger the gap between the rich and poor has gotten during the last few years - the Obama years. If you can't see the very obvious correlation between more government and spending and more redistribution of wealth to the wealthy, you're blind.

Nancy Pelosi and her fellow powerful millionaires are not in it to help us.


Can't believe you'd blame the rich/poor gap on Obama. this gap has been widening ever since Reagan. More distribution of wealth to the wealthy is not from any Democrat, but from "conservatives" in both taxing and spending.

Edited by snowman, 24 September 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#58 snowman

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:19 AM

I have insurance (catastrophic) for my wife and I at $160/mo. Now I have to pay $500/mo or more, and from what I've heard my deductible will likely go up. The system was working for me fine, and I'm sure many others. It wasn't broken for everyone, and those that it was broken for had other broken aspects of life like your friend with no job. Now my life has to bear that break to some degree. Why should I have to pay more? I did nothing wrong.

The government isn't just mandating coverage. They're subsidizing it for some. They're dictating coverage. The free market had plenty of options. Someone will always be hurt under any system. Now I guess it gets to be me, and others like the family in the article. Effing great!


i have no idea what the rates will be, but this, if it's true seems to indicate the most you would pay is 2.5% of your annual income... from Huffington Post.


"If you have employer coverage now, do not worry," said Lynn Quincy, a senior policy analyst at Consumers Union in Washington who specializes in health care issues. "If you're on Medicare now, please don't worry," she said.
Still, a lot of people are worried over the introduction of a new way to buy health insurance and the health care law's "individual mandate" that nearly every legal U.S. resident obtain health coverage or face a tax penalty.
People who don't get health insurance will have to pay $95 dollars or 1 percent of their annual income -- whichever is higher. That amount will rise each year until it hits $695 or 2.5 percent by 2016. The mandate has numerous exemptions, including for financial hardship. Most company health plans already meet the health care reform law's standards for benefits and affordability, as do government health programs like Medicare, Medicaid and military benefits.



#59 umc

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:50 AM

I'm self-employed, and actually the number will be closer to 10% of my income. My income fluctuates, but my payment won't.

Someone I know got a letter through the company they currently have for catastrophic. Their rates are tripling, and their deductible is doubling. We have to see how it shakes out here soon, of course, but someone has to pay for all of this.
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#60 Tina

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

You don't expect your home owner's policy to address preventative maintenance, minor repairs or the guy down the street's house.


Right. Insurance doesn't cover your leaky roof. It only covers a new roof if a high wind/tornado blows it off.

Are there roofing companies who will make sure insurance will cover it? Yep, and most of us would consider them shady. Why is it different with health insurance? A couple hundred dollars to ride from point A to point B in an ambulance? Why? Because insurance is paying for it. (and in our areas the monopoly on coverage areas, but I digress)

The reason everything health wise is so expensive is because there is currently no motivation to shop around and find the best service for the lowest cost. We do it on EVERYTHING else (roofs, new cars, new homes, plumbing, HVAC, etc... how many people go with the first and only one bid??) But because the costs are hidden behind a layer of big business (who, by the way, were the biggest lobby for this bill) we just accept it. That needs to change before true reform can happen.
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