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I couldn't care less about the scandal du jour, THIS is why I hate Obama


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#21 Donna

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:53 PM

if i were killed in my yard from a drone strike by the US government, then yes. when you're overseas as part of al qaeda and you happen to get killed in peripheral damage from a US drone strike against a known terrorist that the US government is pursuing, then i'm not so sure how that should be determined.

But what if you are in your homeland celebrating, oh, I don't know, a wedding, a birthday, or even a family reunion, and a drone shows up. No party favor there! Just because the USA remotely bombs them does not make them guilty of a dang thang!!!
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#22 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:08 AM

But what if you are in your homeland celebrating, oh, I don't know, a wedding, a birthday, or even a family reunion, and a drone shows up. No party favor there! Just because the USA remotely bombs them does not make them guilty of a dang thang!!!


drones are a bad deal for those folks, i agree. they need to make sure, when they're having those celebrations, that none of their al qaeda kinfolk show up.

#23 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:11 AM

What evidence have you seen that has convinced you that this child was "overseas as a part of al qaeda"?


if you can believe journalists that have been covering this... that's why he was there with his dad to join in with al qaeda. once his dad got killed he hung on with al qaeda instead of returning home or whatever else his choices were.

#24 TrackRat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

if you can believe journalists that have been covering this... that's why he was there with his dad to join in with al qaeda. once his dad got killed he hung on with al qaeda instead of returning home or whatever else his choices were.


I haven't read that ANYWHERE. I don't want to be a bother but do you think you could be so kind as to provide a cite to any of your sources so that I may learn more about this child's alleged direct connection to al qaeda? Not his father's, but HIS. If it's true it would certainly change my opinion on the subject.

Even if it is true, which I have yet to see, why wouldn't the Administration just say so? Gibbs quipped that the kid should have had a more responsible father. You yourself posted a supposed quote from an anonymous "former senior official" that said Obama was "surprised and upset" and that, "It was a mistake, a bad mistake." So which is it...a mistake or was the kid "with al qaeda"?

The bottom line is, EVERY U.S. Citizen is guaranteed the right to Due Process of Law by the Constitution. We cannot allow the government to appoint itself judge, jury, and executioner. As in any wrongful death, someone should be held accountable.

Edited by TrackRat, 24 June 2013 - 08:05 AM.

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#25 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:09 AM

I haven't read that ANYWHERE. I don't want to be a bother but do you think you could be so kind as to provide a cite to any of your sources so that I may learn more about this child's alleged direct connection to al qaeda? Not his father's, but HIS. If it's true it would certainly change my opinion on the subject.

Even if it is true, which I have yet to see, why wouldn't the Administration just say so? Gibbs quipped that the kid should have had a more responsible father. You yourself posted a supposed quote from an anonymous "former senior official" that said Obama was "surprised and upset" and that, "It was a mistake, a bad mistake." So which is it...a mistake or was the kid "with al qaeda"?

The bottom line is, EVERY U.S. Citizen is guaranteed the right to Due Process of Law by the Constitution. We cannot allow the government to appoint itself judge, jury, and executioner. As in any wrongful death, someone should be held accountable.


i cannot provide you with that... i read it once and that's how i was informed. i suppose you could search for it on your own. i'm fairly confident that his father took him there and after his father was killed, he stayed, otherwise why would he have been blown up with the terrorist that they were tracking?

#26 TrackRat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:11 AM

i cannot provide you with that... i read it once and that's how i was informed. i suppose you could search for it on your own. i'm fairly confident that his father took him there and after his father was killed, he stayed, otherwise why would he have been blown up with the terrorist that they were tracking?


But you said Obama was upset and that it was a mistake.
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#27 Donna

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:50 AM

Did this "kid" have the ready resources to remove himself from a volatile environment? I'd hate to think what would happen to any child brought into this situation having to navigate it on his/her own. I'd also hate to find myself waiting for a bus along with a known (by the government) terrorist. Don't think my family (on most days anyway!) would appreciate the collateral damage.
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#28 kelley

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:59 AM

Which points to the practical problem with this policy: it makes more terrorists.

If one was on the fence about the evilness of the U.S., little brother being taken out in a drone strike would surely help one form a firm opinion.
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#29 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:25 PM

But you said Obama was upset and that it was a mistake.


I posted an excerpt from this source: i'm not sure what you're trying to ask me... it sounds like the kid was there, with the terrorist we were tracking... unbeknowst to the trackers... and Obama was upset that he got killed...


http://antiwar.com/b...-intentionally/

A former senior official in the Obama administration told me that after Abdulrahman’s killing, the president was "surprised and upset and wanted an explanation." The former official, who worked on the targeted killing program, said that according to intelligence and Special Operations officials, the target of the strike was al-Banna, the AQAP propagandist. "We had no idea the kid was there. We were told al-Banna was alone," the former official told me. Once it became clear that the teenager had been killed, he added, military and intelligence officials asserted, "It was a mistake, a bad mistake." However, John Brennan, at the time President Obama’s senior adviser on counterterrorism and homeland security, "suspected that the kid had been killed intentionally and ordered a review. I don’t know what happened with the review."
Caitlin Hayden, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, would not answer questions about the former official’s assertions, saying that she “can’t address specific operational matters and won’t go into our internal deliberations,” adding: "We cannot discuss the sensitive details of specific operations."

#30 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:30 PM

Did this "kid" have the ready resources to remove himself from a volatile environment? I'd hate to think what would happen to any child brought into this situation having to navigate it on his/her own. I'd also hate to find myself waiting for a bus along with a known (by the government) terrorist. Don't think my family (on most days anyway!) would appreciate the collateral damage.


it is a shame that he was taken to the middle east by his father, to work with al qaeda... unfortunately it sounds like bad parenting.

#31 Tina

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:30 PM

And yet it was later revealed al-Banna was not taken out by that drone strike!

#32 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:31 PM

Which points to the practical problem with this policy: it makes more terrorists.

If one was on the fence about the evilness of the U.S., little brother being taken out in a drone strike would surely help one form a firm opinion.


yep... that is probably true. if we're going to be in the business of going after terrorists, which i think is what we are in the business of, the alternative is to send troops over and have even more folks killed. either option is not pretty.

#33 Tina

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:34 PM

http://www.theatlant...merican/276276/

The administration insists that it conducts copious reviews in the aftermath of drone strikes and always does due diligence helping Congress to fulfill its oversight responsibilities. Either they're lying about that, or there's a report pertaining to the drone strike that killed Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. It should be declassified and shown to the American people. As I see it, a good rule of thumb is that if you wrongly kill an American citizen who also happens to be a minor, you lose the prerogative to keep what you did or how it happened a secret, especially if you then repeatedly tell Americans how much you value transparency and debate.


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#34 Tina

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

I agree with TrackRat, this topic is why I despise Obama as well.

If this administration can kill 16 year old AMERICAN CITIZENS because they just happen to be overseas, well what's to stop them from doing it here? Isn't that what Rand Paul's filibuster was all about?

You can't make excuses for this kind of thing snowman, you just can't. Not if you value American values and history AT ALL!

You can't go lobbing bombs (drones) around and take out civilian lives as "collateral damage" and not have consequences, either to his Presidency or to our nation. How can people NOT see how this kind of policy does INCREASE terrorism. It's why the dag blasted WAR ON TERROR is nothing more than a Whack a Mole to keep the war contractors rich. IT WILL NEVER END!!!!
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#35 TrackRat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

it is a shame that he was taken to the middle east by his father, to work with al qaeda... unfortunately it sounds like bad parenting.


He wasn't taken to the Middle East by his father. Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
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#36 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:21 PM

He wasn't taken to the Middle East by his father. Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?


I read that somewhere... how did he get there then?
from wikipedia:

In April 2010, U.S. President Barack Obama placed al-Awlaki on a list of people whom the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency was authorized to kill because of terrorist activities.[32][33][34] The "targeted killing" of an American citizen was unprecedented. Al-Awlaki's father and civil rights groups challenged the order in court.[32][34][35][36] Al-Awlaki was believed to be in hiding in Southeast Yemen in the last years of his life.[26] The U.S. deployed unmanned aircraft (drones) in Yemen to search for and kill him,[37] firing at and failing to kill him at least once,[38] before succeeding in a fatal American drone attack in Yemen on September 30, 2011.[39] Two weeks later, al-Awlaki's 16-year-old son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen who was born in Denver, was killed by a CIA-led drone strike in Yemen.[40][41][4
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#37 Tina

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

That doesn't say he went with his father. The articles I read say he went LOOKING for his father. You know, presumably because he stopped returning phone calls and all... Since he wa sDEAD.

#38 snowman

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:32 PM

I agree with TrackRat, this topic is why I despise Obama as well.

If this administration can kill 16 year old AMERICAN CITIZENS because they just happen to be overseas, well what's to stop them from doing it here? Isn't that what Rand Paul's filibuster was all about?

You can't make excuses for this kind of thing snowman, you just can't. Not if you value American values and history AT ALL!

You can't go lobbing bombs (drones) around and take out civilian lives as "collateral damage" and not have consequences, either to his Presidency or to our nation. How can people NOT see how this kind of policy does INCREASE terrorism. It's why the dag blasted WAR ON TERROR is nothing more than a Whack a Mole to keep the war contractors rich. IT WILL NEVER END!!!!


i'm not making any excuses... i'm just saying what i've read about this. of course any 16 yo that happens to be overseas shouldn't be a target of the US... and HE WAS NOT.
the target was a terrorist... and he was collateral damage. that is not an excuse that i am making, i'm just stating the facts as i have read and understood them.

#39 Tina

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

Correct, you are only repeating the excuses the administration has used.

Those excuses still should not be enough for you to turn your head and look the other way as if what happened was just a casual mistake and OK.

It happens TOO OFTEN!! not usually to a US citizen, but plenty of CHILDREN die regularly at OUR HANDS (we do elect these people after all so yes their blood is on our hands). They say "it makes us safer!" "Fight them over there instead of over here!" All the while never acknowledging that when you kill someone's family, especially children, and the response is "whoops! Sorry collateral damage! They shouldn't have been born with the same blood in their veins as a terrorist " or "their parents shouldnt have been friends with a terrorist (as if the children had control over it) we are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what we say we intend! If the idea is to kill the terrorists over there so they won't kill us over here we completely ignore human nature of revenge, or we poo poo it and pretend the strategy is still a sound one. All the whole bankrupting our nation with this game of whack a mole.

The power brokers who get rich on oil and war thank you for that! Anyone who can't tell that Obama is nothing more than a puppet to those rich fat cats is blind.

He's either a bald faced liar, or a puppet. You can choose.

Edited by Tina, 24 June 2013 - 07:55 PM.

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#40 TrackRat

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:27 PM

i'm not making any excuses... i'm just saying what i've read about this. of course any 16 yo that happens to be overseas shouldn't be a target of the US... and HE WAS NOT.
the target was a terrorist... and he was collateral damage. that is not an excuse that i am making, i'm just stating the facts as i have read and understood them.


There was no terrorist. The alleged target of this attack was not present nor was he killed.




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