55 replies to this topic

[snowman]

Bedford, on 02 July 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

This says it all: http://www.heritage....acare-tax-hikes

Obama's worshipers ill not listen to reason, anymore than a cockroach would.  Thus why I believe it is best to treat them the same if possible.

you say obama supporters will not "listen to reason" and then you link to the heritage foundation. that is hilarious dude.

[hoosiertaxpayer]

Everybody needs to sit back, relax and least give ObamaCare a chance. NOBODY has any idea how effective it will be. All the naysayers are simply guessing that it will cause costs and insurance prices to rise. It is patterned after the healthcare mandate in Mass. which has been very effective and very popular in Mass. (nearly  70% approval rating) which makes one think it could work...

[Goldwater Girl]

Everyone ignores the fact that KY passed it's own version of "HillaryCare" when it failed at the national level. The stated goals of HB 250 were, increase competition, lower costs, and increase the number of insured in the state. 2 years later, the bill was repealed when none of the goals were met, in fact, all but around 4-5 insurance companies stopped doing business in the state. Costs more than doubled with the mandated plans, and the guaranteed issue rules. The utopia they envisioned did not materialize, just as this Obamacare bill will be a dismal failure. Sorry HT, but I've seen this movie before, so I am not looking for a rosy outcome on this one.

[hoosiertaxpayer]

Goldwater Girl, on 03 July 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Everyone ignores the fact that KY passed it's own version of "HillaryCare" when it failed at the national level. The stated goals of HB 250 were, increase competition, lower costs, and increase the number of insured in the state. 2 years later, the bill was repealed when none of the goals were met, in fact, all but around 4-5 insurance companies stopped doing business in the state. Costs more than doubled with the mandated plans, and the guaranteed issue rules. The utopia they envisioned did not materialize, just as this Obamacare bill will be a dismal failure. Sorry HT, but I've seen this movie before, so I am not looking for a rosy outcome on this one.

How do you explain the success and popularity of the mandate in Mass. which Romney signed into law  and is a pattern for Obamacare ???

I really don't know if it will work or not, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

Anything Mitch McConnell is against can't be all bad.......

[Goldwater Girl]

What's the definition of success?  I know that massachusetts per capita costs are among the highest in the country. Is that success? Let's roll out an unsustainable cost curve to the rest of the country. Are the illegals going to pay the tax penalty? No? Maybe that's obama's purpose for de facto amnesty. At the end of the day, I don't believe the Feds have a solution to the problem.

[Smokey]

The Feds don't seem to have a solution to ANY problem - but that never slows them down.

[Goldwater Girl]

HT,
The state of Massachusetts has per capita costs almost 1/3 higher than KY or IN. Is this our goal? Why is  everyone willing to overlook this fact?  this is the result of govt intervention. I understand your desire for universal coverage and no pre-ex but it's irresponsible to ignore that this will be the likely result of Obamacare. Actually, the costs will probably be higher since Obamacare mandates free preventive care. If this were auto insurance, it's like we are mandating free oil changes and car wash.

[Citizen5]

Seems like a good place to bring this little speach up.

[Details Matter]

Citizen5, on 05 July 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Seems like a good place to bring this little speach up.

Ronald Reagan is typical of someone who was lucky to be extremely wealthy and so he never knew what it was like to be one who had to struggle financially. I would like to make some points to respond to some of the things he said but not necessarily in the order of importance etc.
There was a time when even doctors went broke because if someone did not have the money to pay a doctor, he or she could not do so even if his or her child's life depended on the doctor's service. There was a time that so many people could not afford health care. Since government started to help, there are more financially successful doctors (including specialists), pharmacies, hospitals, prescription drug companies, etc.
I recall that my older brother who was self-employed as a small businessman had to buy his own health insurance. Each year as a person got older, the cost of health insurance went up and up. In addition my brother had diabetes. I know the cost of my health insurance was very,very high before I was eligible for Medicare but because he had diabetes, his health insurance was much higher. Because of this, my brother just had coverage for the big expenses that he would get if he had to go to the hospital, have surgery, etc. He was looking forward to being eligible for Medicare. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack just shortly before he reached the age of 65. We wondered if he would have had more health tests etc. that could have prevented this early death if he had more health coverage than he could have afforded.
The fact is that so many people could not afford health insurance without government help.
I find it interesting that Reagan mentions unions having  health insurance from their employers. He seemed to say this in a positive way even though Republicans don't seem to be crazy about unions today. Well, the fact is that the reason why many companies provide health insurance for their employees is because of the unions (they didn't want their employees to become unionized).
Reagan became rich because he was lucky to make millions of dollars as an actor. Not everyone who strives to be an actor is going to be as lucky even if he or she is talented etc. In addition, acting is much less stressful than the work that many, many other people have to do and those people just make enough to struggle paycheck to paycheck. Reagan had no idea what life is like for the majority of the people.

[Orange Guzzi]

My opinion, and I know how some here like my opinion, is the problem lays with the health insurance companies.  They are set up with profit for their investors as their first goal.  Not paitient care.  I buy a policy to protect me from risk.  The insurance companies main goal is to make a profit for its investor.  Who is going to when everytime.  The insurance company.  The insurance companies are happy about obamacare.  It mandates more customers for them.  

If manditory healthcare is being forced on us, then profit sharing by the insurance companies should be mandated also.  No more publicly traded hospitals or insurance companies.  If I buy a policy from a company and the company makes a profit after paying its employees, sales reps and big wigs, the remainder should be use to paydown my premium or go into a flexable medical spending account that belongs to me, not the company. Currently, I buy a policy, pay a high premium, go to a doctor, and pay a high deductable.  The insurance company made money and the doctor made money. I am reluctant to visit the doctor and take care of my health even when sick because of the high cost.  I cost me double to visit a doctor, repeat double, because I have to pay the high premium and pay the doctor bill. The doctors can charge what ever they and the insurance company wants and the insurance company can raise their premiums before they start losing money.

I have no problem with maditory health insurance.  If all have to pay.  The payment can be a tax, a premium or through State Subsidies.  It will be required from cradle to grave.  Premiums will be based on a patient score card.  Doctors and hospitals must post the cost of all services and patience have the right to pick and choose what sevices they want.  Customers can pick their deductable.  Hospitals and doctors can sell their own insurance plan.  Customers cans become part of the hospital-doctors group and share in the profit.  The states should be responsible for subsidizing plans, not the federal government.  This will force competition between states.  

Health Insurance Companies
AARP- a not for profit company is making millions in profit. Why not lower the premium and let the less fortunate buy in? AARP's haul from sponsoring insurance plans have nearly tripled in recent years to $657 million a year. Some goes toward hefty paychecks. Former CEO Bill Novelli got a raise of more than 80 percent from 2007 to 2009 even as the recession was taking hold. Novelli’s pay went from a little over $900,000 a year to more than $1.6 million.
Some of the money also goes to lobbying -- AARP is the fourth highest-spending lobbying group in Washington.

Aetna- Shares of Aetna Inc. shot up 15 percent in pre-market trading Friday after the health insurer announced the highest dividend in the managed care sector and predicted its 2011 profit will be much bigger than what Wall Street expects.

The Hartford, Conn., company also said its fourth-quarter net income rose 30 percent due in part to better pricing and a slowdown in health care use that also has helped its competitors in the last few months of 2010.

American Family Insurance-
American National Insurance Company
Amerigroup
Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield
Assurant
Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association
Celtic Insurance Company, subsidiary of Centene Corporation
Centene Corporation
Cigna
Coventry Health Care
EmblemHealth
Fortis
Golden Rule Insurance Company
Group Health Cooperative
GHI
Health Net
HealthMarkets
Healthplus
HealthSpring
Highmark
Humana
Independence Blue Cross
Kaiser Permanente
LifeWise Health Plan of Oregon
Medical Mutual of Ohio
Molina Healthcare
Premera Blue Cross
Principal Financial Group
The Regence Group
Shelter Insurance
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
UnitedHealth Group
Unitrin
Universal American Corporation
WellCare Health Plans
WellPoint

Medicare Insurance Companies
Aetna
American Family Insurance
Bankers Life and Casualty
Conseco
Mutual of Omaha
Premera Blue Cross
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
Kaiser Permanente

Do a web search on any of the above health insurance companies.  Put in the company name with the word profit behind it in your search bar.  They are all making big profits.  Big profits do not make healthy Americans.  The politician do not want their cash cows taken away.  Look up how much these companies are contributing to politicians. The whole health care debate is a distractions from the true problem.  Billions of dollars taken from hard working Americans with little or nothing in return.

[joebloe]

My thoughts? It's another piece of socialist legislation designed to push us further into the cage before they slam the door shut. It is unconstitutional and un-American. Anyone who had anything to do with it's passing and being upheld should be removed from office immediately. These are my thoughts on the matter.

[hoosiertaxpayer]

joebloe, on 07 July 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

It is unconstitutional and un-American.

Wrong !!

The Supreme Court said it is......

[Random Thoughts]

hoosiertaxpayer, on 07 July 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Wrong !!

The Supreme Court said it is......

Yes they did.

But unfortunately many people think they dont know enough about the constitution to make a proper ruling.
And our justices, who are selected, and approved, ( by both parties) specifically because of their knowledge and understanding of it ... Are incompetent. And dont understand it.

Yea right.

My question is ... If Obamacare is unconstitutional , socialist, and all the other things...
Then why when the GOP's fair haired boy passed Romneycare in Mass. Was it ok ? Since it is the basis and pattern for Obama's program.


Oh thats right. I forgot. If its Democratic legislation .. its evil , communist and un American.  
If its Republican legislation.. its A-OK.

[joebloe]

hoosiertaxpayer, on 07 July 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Wrong !!

The Supreme Court said it is......

No, 5 justices said it is. The other4 said it wasn't. The 5 are idiots. It is unconstitutional and un-American. It doesn't take a black robe to figure that out.

[joebloe]

Random Thoughts, on 07 July 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

My question is ... If Obamacare is unconstitutional , socialist, and all the other things...
Then why when the GOP's fair haired boy passed Romneycare in Mass. Was it ok ? Since it is the basis and pattern for Obama's program.

It was not OK to this Republican. It's more understandable at the state level. I can move to Kentucky if Indiana did it. However, I still feel it is socialist, unconstitutional and un-American, even if Mittens passed it.

[Debbie]

Here's an interesting item on Obamacare that gets into some nitty-gritty details of how collection of the tax would really work:

If you don't buy insurance, will you really pay a tax?

Excerpt:
"Now that the Supreme Court has decided that ObamaCare’s mandate to buy health insurance is a tax, will the IRS be able to collect it?

Generally speaking, if you owe money to the IRS, they will get it from you—with the possible exception of the ObamaCare tax. Though ObamaCare’s individual mandate imposes a tax on people who do not purchase government-approved health insurance, the law explicitly neuters the IRS’s ability to collect the tax.

Bizarre? Yes. And it matters. If policymakers expect uninsured young people to buy health insurance when it is even more expensive than it is today, the threat of serious consequences for not doing so must be real. Yes, the threat that the IRS might come after you if you do not do what you are told looks real at first glance. But Democratic politicians, fearing public backlash for making the mandate too intrusive, pulled its teeth." Read more here.