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Graves found under Jeffersonville softball field


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#21 rosietheriveter

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:03 PM

:goodpost:

All of the above!!!

#22 Orange Guzzi

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:03 AM

I was involved in the relocation of FOUR graves from a local burial site a few years ago. The whole process took a week and cost about $25,000, including the reinterment of the remains. If Jeanne's right and there are 300 people buried here, what's that add up to?

I hope the Clark County Cemetery Commission is all over this situation like a duck on a junebug.



Thats pretty cheap. $6,500 each.

I bet by the time all the local, county, state and federal agencies get finished with paper work it will be close to $65,000 each.

#23 Random Thoughts

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:42 AM

Fox, I like you dude. You do your homework. And find facts.
And that helps solve things and answer questions.
:thumbsup:

I used the name "City Cemetery" as that is the designation used on the army report. But many sources I have seen identified it by various names... The Old Cemetery, Old City Cemetery, Mulberry St. Cemetery... But it looks to me that the location is the same. At the current location of Playsquare.

Also the QM report names the graveyard by Jefferson General as the "Soldiers Burial Lot" Most of the descriptions of its location are basically "down the hill from the hospital" Provided the topography hasn't been altered drastically since then... (by development). Standing where the historical marker for the hospital is..... "Downhill" would seem to place it right where traditional reports claim it was. In the area of old Memorial Park and the ball fields.

The other cemetery your maps indicate.. "United States Cemetery" is very interesting. Since Camp Joe Holt was West of Missouri Ave, located by "Big Eddie". And served as a hospital until Jefferson General went into operation.. It would certainly seem a possibility there may have been another grave yard in that direction. Wouldn't the descriptions you have.. put the US graveyard somewhere around where Clark Mem. Hospital is now ?

#24 RiverFox

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:03 AM

Fox, I like you dude. You do your homework. And find facts.
And that helps solve things and answer questions.
:thumbsup:


Thanks ... I try. :D But I'm not a real historian. I just pick up things
while trying to justify old map features. It only took me 30 years to find
corroboration for the 1876 "Pest House" that started me off on all of this. :laugh:

I used the name "City Cemetery" as that is the designation used on the army report. But many sources I have seen identified it by various names... The Old Cemetery, Old City Cemetery, Mulberry St. Cemetery... But it looks to me that the location is the same. At the current location of Playsquare.


That's been my take as well. But the more info I find the less certain I am.

Also the QM report names the graveyard by Jefferson General as the "Soldiers Burial Lot" Most of the descriptions of its location are basically "down the hill from the hospital" Provided the topography hasn't been altered drastically since then... (by development). Standing where the historical marker for the hospital is..... "Downhill" would seem to place it right where traditional reports claim it was. In the area of old Memorial Park and the ball fields.

Keep in mind that anything east of Main Street should be Port Fulton, not Jeffersonville.
(just as Camp Joe Holt and the reformatory were Jeff at that time and not Clarksville)

The other cemetery your maps indicate.. "United States Cemetery" is very interesting. Since Camp Joe Holt was West of Missouri Ave, located by "Big Eddie". And served as a hospital until Jefferson General went into operation.. It would certainly seem a possibility there may have been another grave yard in that direction. Wouldn't the descriptions you have.. put the US graveyard somewhere around where Clark Mem. Hospital is now ?


Yep ... it would be in about a four block area around the Clark County records office.
But that's another 'unique' feature that I've never found documentation for.

#25 Random Thoughts

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:42 AM

For sure the changing municipal borders make it harder to pinpoint things. Not to mentioned we are at least around a 140 years removed all this.

When looking through census reports,(doing some genealogy).. I have many times gotten bogged down trying to keep up with the ever changing boundary lines.
I had one family line in East Tennessee that lived in 4 different counties, in 80 years.
The "old homestead " stayed in the same place. But they kept breaking up bigger counties to make smaller ones. Cities aren't much better. The old street names get changed, or rerouted in different directions. :wacko:

So RF, whats your thinking about the City Cemetery ? Are you finding info that makes you think there could have been a cemetery that got lost in the shuffle, of the years?

Or possibly, have we misidentified it ?

#26 RiverFox

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 11:57 AM

So RF, whats your thinking about the City Cemetery ? Are you finding info that makes you think there could have been a cemetery that got lost in the shuffle, of the years?

Or possibly, have we misidentified it ?


Actually ... I have no clue. :blink:
When I first found that reference I just assumed that it was another name for "Old Grave Yard"
but I've not found any other records or maps that confirm it.
It could have been nothing more than a small annex of one of the other cemeteries
that existed at the time. (Walnut Ridge, Eastern {Chestnut Grove} & St. Anthony's)
__________________________________________________________________________________

The map names run like this (with some overlap)
Grave Yard 1824-1875
Old Grave Yard 1876-1917... and the maps that show the greatest detail have the cemetery
only being the eastern half of the park triangle.

Edited by RiverFox, 03 December 2011 - 03:35 PM.


#27 Random Thoughts

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:11 PM

I drove by Playsquare this morning (Saturday) and saw what appeared to be at least two people in the right field area ,(close to the fence). One was sitting in a chair looking at papers, or maybe a map. I didnt see any signs of active digging going on. And the backhoe was sitting over past the foul line. But looked like it was just parked there.
And the other excavations appeared to have been filled in.

I wished I had time to have stopped ..and just checked out what was going on. But unfortunately I had other places to be. Does anyone know if they started excavating on that part of the field today ?
Or heard if there are any plans to do any digging in the playground area behind the fence ?

#28 RiverFox

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:30 PM

This might help. They're the most detailed that I have.

This one is an original centennial map.
I've yet to find a mistake on it.
1876 Posted Image

The next one is a Rand McNally and could very well
have used the one above as a template.
1892 Posted Image

I don't think that the playground would be part of it.

Edited by RiverFox, 03 December 2011 - 11:15 PM.


#29 Random Thoughts

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:47 AM

My aunt owned a house there at the corner where Maple met Ohio... I remember vaguely how everything looked before the they built the bridge and changed it all.
But the area as I remember it obviously was drastically different from the time of these maps.
Rose Hill opened when I was in the 2nd grade and I went there for for years before we moved to the Springdale Dr. area. The map shows either access roads or alleys encircling the grave yard.
And I seem to remember that beside the playground (somewhere behind the church) there was a short section of alley that started and ran in the direction of Ohio St. Or at least where it used to be. I don't know if it actually went anywhere. But I think I do remember there was at least a part of it.
I guess that, (and the alley to the South), running behind the houses on Market... are the two roads originally running along the N and S boundaries of the grave yard.
But I would have to agree with RF.. Just judging by the map. It looks like the grave yard ended right about where the current outfield fence, of the softball field, is now. Give or take a few yards.

#30 AerialView

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:46 AM

To me this has been extremely interesting. Thanks so much to all of you that have contributed to this Jeffersonville history lesson. Kind of like our own Plymouth Rock. This is just more reason to have a museum so we don't forget our beginnings.

How cool would it be to have a section of downtown rebuilt as it was when the first settlers came here. That could also serve as an economic draw.

Pat Barrow

#31 Random Thoughts

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:54 AM

Those maps ave very cool,( by the way), River Fox. Thanks for sharing.

I hope everyone wont mind me sharing a childhood story about that area. The excavating made me think of it.
When I was in the 3rd grade we rented a house directly across Maple, from the school. ( Where those apts are now ).
And one day when I was goofing around in the backyard I noticed a coin, (the size of a dime), laying in the dirt, right up against the base of a big tree that was growing there.

My grandparents had gotten me interested in coin collecting by that time .. So seeing it obviously got my attention. I started rubbing on it and immediately noticed this looked like a very old coin.
After doing a quick search around the area, (to see if any more laying about)... I took it in the house and washed it off.
To my amazement discovered it was a "seated liberty" dime, minted in New Orleans in 1853!
So you can imagine considering how the mind of a 3rd grader works... I was convinced that somewhere under that tree rested a treasure trove of old coins. I was sure I had found the "Motherload"

Over the next couple days..using a large tablespoon I "borrowed" from the kitchen..
And with great stealth... I "excavated" all around the bottom of that tree.
I did this, of course, only when I was sure none of other neighborhood kids were around.
I wasn't about to share the treasure with them ! It was mine!..All mine !

But alas.. After a couple days of my covert operation.. I had to accept there was no treasure. :mad:
All I had for my efforts were the original dime, ( which I still have ),and a very beat up, and bent, tablespoon.

Which I buried in the last hole I dug. (I wasnt about to let my mom see what I did to her spoon ! )
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#32 Vicki

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:15 AM

The Maps I have that were my father, he used for his plumbing and heating business and also city building commissioner, showed the Cemetery and other interesting information. I have offered several administrations both Democrat and Republican they could make copies of them, but was told they were not needed. Always thought the comment was very interesting as my father saw a need for them and he had been in the plumbing business since 1926 and building commissioner from 1965 until 1983.

Edited by Vicki, 04 December 2011 - 10:18 AM.


#33 ChopperWoman

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:26 AM

<<<< laughing at Random Thoughts story. You were smart to bury the spoon!

#34 Random Thoughts

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:06 PM

Gosh..
good thing I didnt know what was resting just behind the school. No telling what kind of trouble me and my spoon could have gotten into. :shifty:

Yep.. burying it was a smart move on my part. If I do say so myself. :D

Better to sit and use the standard 8 year old defense of pleading total ignorance.. (when she noticed it was gone). Than to have my hide tanned with it. !

8 year olds have a lot to learn. But dont underestimate their wisdom or quick thinking when it
becomes a matter of survival. :whistle:
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#35 cindiloohoo

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

To me this has been extremely interesting. Thanks so much to all of you that have contributed to this Jeffersonville history lesson. Kind of like our own Plymouth Rock. This is just more reason to have a museum so we don't forget our beginnings.

How cool would it be to have a section of downtown rebuilt as it was when the first settlers came here. That could also serve as an economic draw.

Pat Barrow


:goodpost:
Great idea!

#36 cindiloohoo

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:34 PM

Hilarious story, Random Thoughts - and so typical of an 8-year-old's thought process. :laugh:

#37 RiverFox

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:42 PM

The Maps I have that were my father, he used for his plumbing and heating business and also city building commissioner, showed the Cemetery and other interesting information. I have offered several administrations both Democrat and Republican they could make copies of them, but was told they were not needed. Always thought the comment was very interesting as my father saw a need for them and he had been in the plumbing business since 1926 and building commissioner from 1965 until 1983.

You should approach the Jeff Library with them.
I haven't been to either in more than ten years (having exhausted the material in both)
but the New Albany Library had a much better selection of cartographic materials
than the Jeff Library. (even though it only had about half the space)
I haven't been to either the new library or the Clarksville annex.
It's too easy to search online resources now and I got lazy. :sleep:

#38 RiverFox

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:49 PM

Those maps ave very cool,( by the way), River Fox. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you. I don't mind sharing as long as I don't start boring people. :yes:

I grew up in a different location. The only story that I have of general interest
would be finding a 50cal military gun barrel buried in one of Mr. Wathen's fields.
Left it at a friend's house. Don't know what ever became of it. :cry:

Edited by RiverFox, 04 December 2011 - 03:10 PM.


#39 Random Thoughts

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:10 PM

A 50 ca. barrel ? Wow. That's something you don't come across every day ! Wonder if it was off a water cooled Browning ?

A find like that is one of those situations where you just scratch your head, and ponder " How in the heck did that get here ? "

Edited by Random Thoughts, 04 December 2011 - 08:38 PM.


#40 RiverFox

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:08 PM

A 50 ca. barrel ? Wow. That's something you don't come across every day ! Wonder if it was off a water cooled Browning ?

A find like that is one of those situations where you just scratch your head, and ponder " How in the heck did that get here ? "


After I posted that I got curious. This is the only thing that I could find online.

The large parts diagram is from a WW2 era manual put out by General Motors.
The parts blow-ups below it are from a 1944 armorer's manual for the M2 aircraft.

Posted Image

Just the center piece. (or according to this two pieces) Sorry it's so big. I'm lazy today
No shroud. No mountings. Just the barrel. (and evidently the 'sleeve')
Didn't know what it was 'till I cleaned out the mud and found the rifling.

:laugh: Story of my life. I've seen so many things that, if I hadn't been there myself,
I wouldn't believe them either. :laugh:

Edited by RiverFox, 04 December 2011 - 09:13 PM.





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