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Operation Fast and Furious


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#21 roundots

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 01:43 PM

In my opinion, none of your posts have trashed this thread. You pointed out that no matter the subject, OldGoat gets his digs in on how miserably our president has failed in all areas.

The president is ultimately responsible for what happens on his watch. Do I think he was actively involved in this fiasco? No.

#22 TrackRat

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 01:53 PM

In my opinion, none of your posts have trashed this thread. You pointed out that no matter the subject, OldGoat gets his digs in on how miserably our president has failed in all areas.

The president is ultimately responsible for what happens on his watch. Do I think he was actively involved in this fiasco? No.

I don't see how any thread in here can be all that damned "important" anyway. This is the Clark County Chatter. It's not a Grand Jury hearing. Who's going to die as a result of Pesty's posts?

#23 Quasar

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:27 PM

I don't see how any thread in here can be all that damned "important" anyway. This is the Clark County Chatter. It's not a Grand Jury hearing. Who's going to die as a result of Pesty's posts?


That is interesting that you don't see this as an important topic. We have a conspiracy that appears reaches all the way to the Department of Justice and the Attorney General. It's certainly possible that it goes even higher than that... I would think that an awful lot of people would consider this to be a very important matter.

The United States Federal Government devised a scheme to facilitate gun running into Mexico to be delivered to the drug cartel leaders who then turned them on the Mexican people. Of course we now know that these weapons were also used to assault and kill United States Federal Agents. Of course this had to be done without involving the Mexican government because they would have never allowed such an operation to take place. Then at the end of the day, I believe that we need to wonder what the reason for such an operation really was?

Hmmnn... maybe it's not all the important to some people, but I'm thinking that most people wouldn't agree. :happy:

#24 Quasar

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:38 PM

In my opinion, none of your posts have trashed this thread. You pointed out that no matter the subject, OldGoat gets his digs in on how miserably our president has failed in all areas.


roundots of course you are free to take sides if you wish, the truth of the matter remains we had two posters posting only in response to "one up" one another with no consideration of the topic at hand. It is a distraction and once it has gone through several back and forth posts its difficult for anyone else to become engaged because you can't see the conversation as well. It takes two to tango so to hang this around one persons neck is unfair.

I hope that you are correct that our POTUS did not know anything about this, however I do believe that considering his poor and inconsistent leadership combined with his socialist policies that he may have intentionally turned a blind eye to this in hopes of a public outcry and demand for further gun control legislation. If you poke around the web a bit you will find people that are writing articles about the need even in light of the Fast and Furious issues out there.

#25 TrackRat

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:20 PM

That is interesting that you don't see this as an important topic. We have a conspiracy that appears reaches all the way to the Department of Justice and the Attorney General. It's certainly possible that it goes even higher than that... I would think that an awful lot of people would consider this to be a very important matter.

The United States Federal Government devised a scheme to facilitate gun running into Mexico to be delivered to the drug cartel leaders who then turned them on the Mexican people. Of course we now know that these weapons were also used to assault and kill United States Federal Agents. Of course this had to be done without involving the Mexican government because they would have never allowed such an operation to take place. Then at the end of the day, I believe that we need to wonder what the reason for such an operation really was?

Hmmnn... maybe it's not all the important to some people, but I'm thinking that most people wouldn't agree.

Once again, you misconstrue what I said. I never said the story wasn't important. What doesn't amount to a hill of beans is what TrackRat, Pesty, and Quasar say about it in the Clark County Chatter.

Edited by TrackRat, 26 June 2011 - 03:21 PM.

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#26 hoosiertaxpayer

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

Old Goat and Pesty 2... you are trashing a very important thread. If you two want to beat on each other, please do it privately.

Now back on topic please.

I am interested in seeing a transcript of all testimony given in the house hearings on this. Anyone know where to find that ?


C'mon on trashing ??? The whole idea behind this topic being posted is to TRASH the Obama administration, as are 90% of the topics you post. Sure this was as a tragic incident, but the fact is the U.S. has armed our enemies and future enemies many times over the years. Dem.and Rep. administrations alike have provided arms to countries and insurgents, who in return that have used these arms against Americans in the military.
Who can ever forget the images of Rumsfeld and Suddam Hussein grinning at each other and shaking hands.

To think that this situation is out of the ordinary and a isolated situation is absurd, it's been going on forever. Yes,it was a tragic and unfortunate siuation and the BATF should be investigated especially after the repeated incidents ( Ruby Ridge, Waco and Koresh). But to try to paint this as an exclusively an Obama failure is asinine. And the whole idea of this topic being so important is greatly exaggerated....


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#27 Quasar

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:38 PM

What doesn't amount to a hill of beans is what TrackRat, Pesty, and Quasar say about it in the Clark County Chatter.


That kind of mindset is precisely why we find ourselves with leaders that feel they can do whatever they wish. They are counting on individuals to sit back and think "what I think doesn't amount to a hill of beans" so, maybe I won't mention it or maybe I won't call or write about it, or maybe I won't even go an vote. Until the average TrackRat, Pesty 2 and Quasar believe that what they have to say is important... then it won't be. I for one insist on being heard! You be silent over there if you wish TR... :yes:

Every government fiasco like Operation Fast and Furious has to be a big deal to more people...

Edited by Quasar, 26 June 2011 - 03:39 PM.

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#28 TrackRat

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:55 PM

I for one insist on being heard! You be silent over there if you wish TR

Every government fiasco like Operation Fast and Furious has to be a big deal to more people...

You'd like that wouldn't you? But I'll say whatever I want. I don't care how important you think your little threads are.

#29 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 09:39 PM

I came on this thread thinking I was agreeing with the OP. That the BATF is a cowboy keystone kops operation. Belatedly, I realize that this is
intended to be a springboard to yet another condemnation of Obama.

Ironically, I am a 'supporter' of Obama only insofar as I am a democrat and an American (he is my president).

My insistence that personal blame (I have conceded that Obama bears responsibility due to his position) be based on fact, not supposition
leads to tedious snorts that I "am an Obama supporter". But, Quasar,
old fellow, please say again...what IS this thread about? Operation Fast and Furious....or your conspiracy theory? If the latter, ...include me out.
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#30 roundots

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 10:22 PM

roundots of course you are free to take sides if you wish, the truth of the matter remains we had two posters posting only in response to "one up" one another with no consideration of the topic at hand. It is a distraction and once it has gone through several back and forth posts its difficult for anyone else to become engaged because you can't see the conversation as well. It takes two to tango so to hang this around one persons neck is unfair.

I hope that you are correct that our POTUS did not know anything about this, however I do believe that considering his poor and inconsistent leadership combined with his socialist policies that he may have intentionally turned a blind eye to this in hopes of a public outcry and demand for further gun control legislation. If you poke around the web a bit you will find people that are writing articles about the need even in light of the Fast and Furious issues out there.

Thanks for allowing me to have an opinion. Means a lot to me.

#31 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:02 PM

...
I do believe that considering his poor and inconsistent leadership combined with his socialist policies that he may have intentionally turned a blind eye to this in hopes of a public outcry and demand for further gun control legislation. ....



You believe his intent was that public outcry against the agency that
primarily enforces firearm law....would lead to a demand for more
authority for that agency (the Bureau of A T and Firearms)?

Ok...DEFINITELY....include me OUT.

#32 Quasar

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 01:48 PM

You believe his intent was that public outcry against the agency that
primarily enforces firearm law....would lead to a demand for more
authority for that agency (the Bureau of A T and Firearms)?

Ok...DEFINITELY....include me OUT.


Hmmnn... I believe that if you had not snipped the previous line you would see that I had written: "I hope that you are correct that our POTUS did not know anything about this". I meant it then and I mean it now... I do hope that he didnt know anything about this.

Your quote here is not at all what I meant. Regardless of whoever was involved in this I'm sure that their intent was the the operation remain under the radar. Somewhere I read that there was a lot of internal agency panic when they found that some of these weapons had killed one of our agents.

"IF" there was a anti-second amendment twist to this whole scheme, it would have come if the operation remained quiet and more and more weapons showed up in Mexico with a bunch more dead folks laying around. At that time Obama and Clinton could have continued to apolize to Mexico for our "gun problem" spilling over into their country and thus provide fuel for the fire for the anti-gun lobby.

I apologize if I did a poor job of explaining it... writing is not strong suit.

#33 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 07:55 PM

Quasar said, "I hope that you are correct that our POTUS did not know anything about this".

I did not say he did not know anything about it. How would I know? I said there are no facts in the record (as I have seen it so far) that
indicate he did.

He bears responsibility as president because it happened "on his watch".

Whether he bears personal responsibility is not shown. Maybe it will be.
Maybe it won't be.

Since it happened on his watch, In my OPINION he needs to clean house
and reconstitute the program...i.e., dismantle it and apologize to Mexico. JMO.

#34 Quasar

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:46 PM

Interesting... Mexico is taking a hard stance on this fiasco. I can't say as I blame them... but hey, we are not going to be sending any of our folks over their for trial. It just isn't going to happen, and it shouldn't.

Just days after watching the guns be sold to these so-called straw buyers, those who bought the weapons illegally and then sold them illegally, the weapons showed up at crime scenes and seizures in Mexico. Rather than stop the operation and tell Mexican police, U.S. officials continued to prime the pump, telling gun stores to order more weapons and sell hundreds to just a few individuals.

To Mexico, the U.S. government has blood on its hands.

"It confirms what many Mexicans already believe. That there is this conspiracy from the U.S. to sell guns to Mexico, and that conspiracy has to do with this idea that America is trying to control Mexico or protect the arms industry," said Ana Maria Salazar, a respected Mexican political analyst and former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Drug Enforcement Policy under President Bill Clinton. Before that she worked as a policy adviser in the White House on Latin American affairs.








#35 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:15 PM

The most recent article I saw on this, (can't recall where) indicated
the administration was positioning for removal of the acting BATF head, and 'ramifications' for the key operatives down the line.

Also there was some discussion about whether ATF has outlived it's usefulness and should be 'folded' into the FBI. (I bet FBI doesn't want 'em).

In this case, Mexico should be taking a hard line. I am not informed enough to know if that is ultimately a good thing or a bad thing. But, if the tables were turned, I would want the U.S. to 'take a hard line'.

Saw a case, here in Clark County, a few years back with some Mexican
nationals and their three locations for drug stashing. One of the locations (in C Town) the cops found machine guns.

Also know that Justice in Indiana, now sees more threat from the Mexico drug trade lines from Chicago and Atlanta into Indiana than from any other ethnic group.

Edited by Pesty Version 2, 05 July 2011 - 11:16 PM.


#36 Bedford

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 12:00 AM

I could have almost gagged when a Mexican official complained about the USA not respecting their sovereignty when they have been making jokes of ours for 30+ years with illegal immigration.

#37 Pesty Version 2

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:32 PM

My link

Mexican criminal animal speaks.

#38 Oldgoat

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 02:13 PM

According to the Acting head of ATF, it went all the way to the President. He's singing like a canary!

#39 TrackRat

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

According to the Acting head of ATF, it went all the way to the President.

I can't find a quote of him saying that anywhere. Would you be so kind as to provide us with a link? Thanks.

#40 Oldgoat

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:38 PM

Here you go TR! Omamao financed it with HIS stimulus money!

http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=320129

http://www.newsmax.c...omo_code=C914-1

Edited by Oldgoat, 10 July 2011 - 03:43 PM.





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